discussion How much smoke is too much? Tuned BMW X5 diesel

[MLorgat]

Hey guys, Wanted to get opinions from other guys on the forum who've also tuned their B57 engines and downpiped them. How much does the car smoke, and does it bother you?

I understand they run higher fuel pressures compared to the previous Gen N57 engine, and also that a richer fuel mixture is better than a leaner fuel mixture to keep temps in check, etc, but I wanted to find out if there is such a thing as a ''smokeless tune'' on these diesel engines without compromising reliability?

If the smoke is there to stay i might as well just do a stage 2 and get that 240kw and 750nm . As it is, I'm driving like an absolute animal since I did the tune and downpipe (currently about 225kw and 650nm)

And 1 more, will a stage 2 be reliable long term, or should I leave it as is? Mileage is currently at 90k KM and was just serviced with @Clint@MMS AUTO and has no issues whatsoever. Car will be religiously serviced with Clint going forward.

 

[PsyCLown]

I never did a tune when I had my diesel but I have seen people post smokeless tunes, as for how reliable they are I have not heard of anyone experiencing issues with these tunes.

As for stage 2, provided its a good tune it should be reliable long term. You've already removed the DPF, IMO should have gone for more power initially (stage 2).
I say get it tuned again for more power, service more often and enjoy the car and the extra power! Speak to the tuner about a tune with less smoke and see what they say.

 

[Jaws]

Hey guys, Wanted to get opinions from other guys on the forum who've also tuned their B57 engines and downpiped them. How much does the car smoke, and does it bother you?

I understand they run higher fuel pressures compared to the previous Gen N57 engine, and also that a richer fuel mixture is better than a leaner fuel mixture to keep temps in check, etc, but I wanted to find out if there is such a thing as a ''smokeless tune'' on these diesel engines without compromising reliability?

If the smoke is there to stay i might as well just do a stage 2 and get that 240kw and 750nm . As it is, I'm driving like an absolute animal since I did the tune and downpipe (currently about 225kw and 650nm)

And 1 more, will a stage 2 be reliable long term, or should I leave it as is? Mileage is currently at 90k KM and was just serviced with @Clint@MMS AUTO and has no issues whatsoever. Car will be religiously serviced with Clint going forward.

Overfueling on a diesel works the opposite to a petrol. On a petrol if you overfuel it can assist with keeping temps lower.

On a diesel if you overfuel your EGTs will go very high.
Black smoke for extended periods is not good for the engine or turbo

 

[MLorgat]

When driving normally I don't see any smoke at all, it's only when I floor it that I get smoke

It seems like it's almost impossible to get a "smokeless" tune on these diesels while getting good power and removing the DPF.

Juvan offered to detune for less smoke but will get 10kw less and 60nm. Also said he doesn't recommend it.

 

[Jaws]

I installed EGT gauges on my two tuned diesel engines. I used them for towing where exhaust gas temperatures can quickly run to over 800 C

 

[AudiDriver]

I would start by logging EGT on some WOT runs and make sure they’re well clear of the upper limit.

As stated diesels do not run cooler when richer…they just make more power. The smoke you see is a result of incomplete combustion, which is wasteful and not doing your engine any favours. That is my opinion on the matter anyway. You shouldn’t see smoke from where you sit in the driver’s seat - that definitely sounds like too much smoke to me.


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[MLorgat]

I would start by logging EGT on some WOT runs and make sure they’re well clear of the upper limit.

As stated diesels do not run cooler when richer…they just make more power. The smoke you see is a result of incomplete combustion, which is wasteful and not doing your engine any favours. That is my opinion on the matter anyway. You shouldn’t see smoke from where you sit in the driver’s seat - that definitely sounds like too much smoke to me.


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I'm sure juvan @Xcede Performance will be able to give some clarity on this as he mentioned he's been tuning them for years, and I see that a lot if not, most of the forum members are tuned by him.

 

[Xcede Performance]

I would start by logging EGT on some WOT runs and make sure they’re well clear of the upper limit.

As stated diesels do not run cooler when richer…they just make more power. The smoke you see is a result of incomplete combustion, which is wasteful and not doing your engine any favours. That is my opinion on the matter anyway. You shouldn’t see smoke from where you sit in the driver’s seat - that definitely sounds like too much smoke to me.


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Hi There,

B57 runs 2500 bar rail pressure from factory as opposed to 1800 bar in the N57.

B57 smokes in stock form already. They run fairly smoke free up till 215-220wkw mark at altitude.

From 225-240wkw you can expect some noticeable smoke under WOT as the injection rates are a lot higher.

We've done around 70-80 B57's in the country and have datalogs to back this up.

The strength of the B57 is actually the fueling system since it's equipped with a smaller turbo than the N57 variant.


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[Mytfine]

Hi There,

B57 runs 2500 bar rail pressure from factory as opposed to 1800 bar in the N57.

B57 smokes in stock form already. They run fairly smoke free up till 215-220wkw mark at altitude.

From 225-240wkw you can expect some noticeable smoke under WOT as the injection rates are a lot higher.

We've done around 70-80 B57's in the country and have datalogs to back this up.

The strength of the B57 is actually the fueling system since it's equipped with a smaller turbo than the N57 variant.


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Hold the phone , you mean to tell me that a stock turboB57 can run 225 to 240 wkw 😯. Colour me flippin impressed, never knew they are that potent.

 

[MLorgat]

Hold the phone , you mean to tell me that a stock turboB57 can run 225 to 240 wkw 😯. Colour me flippin impressed, never knew they are that potent.

Mines is currently at 225wkw/650nm at the moment on a stage 1 as Juvan did a mild tune to mitigate the heavy smoke. He said I can do 240kw/750nm without any issue but smoke will be much more.

We spoke the other day about a smokeless tune or close to it but he doesn't recommend it due to the loss of power (about 10kw and 50nm) and potential reliability concerns.

 

[Jaws]

Mines is currently at 225wkw/650nm at the moment on a stage 1 as Juvan did a mild tune to mitigate the heavy smoke. He said I can do 240kw/750nm without any issue but smoke will be much more.

We spoke the other day about a smokeless tune or close to it but he doesn't recommend it due to the loss of power (about 10kw and 50nm) and potential reliability concerns.

Wish he can explain how a smokeless tune on a diesel has potential reliability concerns

Without the smoke you don't have poke school .

 

[MLorgat]

came across these:

G05 30d's that have been tuned to around 240kw/720nm and don't seem to be smoking even on full throttle?

 

[Xcede Performance]

came across these:

G05 30d's that have been tuned to around 240kw/720nm and don't seem to be smoking even on full throttle?

Wheel power - 281whp that’s a mere 209kw on the wheels


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[MLorgat]

Wheel power - 281whp that’s a mere 209kw on the wheels


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My mistake, would a tune like this be as reliable in your opinion?

Basically, 210 kW on the wheels from the stock 170

 

[Xcede Performance]

My mistake, would a tune like this be as reliable in your opinion?

Yes but would be nowhere nearly as lively. G05 is a heavy car


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[MLorgat]

Yes but would be nowhere nearly as lively. G05 is a heavy car


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I think I'd be happy to sacrifice a bit of power for a smokeless tune, "if" that's possible and doesn't affect reliability in the least.

Using it as a family car, I've already found it to have decent power when stock, so I suppose a tune that's slightly better than stock and slightly worse than it is now should do its job?

FYI, My Experience with Juvan at @Xcede Performance has been Excellent so far, as Juvan has gone out of his way to accommodate me. This is just for the forum to see what other B57 owners say.

 

[AshG108]

Wish he can explain how a smokeless tune on a diesel has potential reliability concerns

Without the smoke you don't have poke school .

He means that a higher powered file WITH more smoke could be pushing the limits of the car and fueling and boost to achieve the power and will possibly affect wear and tear over long time or short term (dependent on how someone also maintains there car plays a factor here to term till issues).
Thinking also that for a higher power file with more smoke you also need hardware to sufficiently support the car.
With mine, had Stage 1 with no hardware, pushed good power but only did Stage 2 after fitting a DP, Performance filter and the car having a major service with all fluids flushed, fresh oil and filters.
Next would possibly be a larger intercooler but for now, the car is a family car and it doesn't really do back to back runs or anything so on the fence around that.

Juvan & Sherwin play it safe and will always map the car WITH reliability in consideration, and if you choose to want more power and risk certain things then the owner will choose so.

 

[AudiDriver]

I think I'd be happy to sacrifice a bit of power for a smokeless tune, "if" that's possible and doesn't affect reliability in the least.

Using it as a family car, I've already found it to have decent power when stock, so I suppose a tune that's slightly better than stock and slightly worse than it is now should do its job?

FYI, My Experience with Juvan at @Xcede Performance has been Excellent so far, as Juvan has gone out of his way to accommodate me. This is just for the forum to see what other B57 owners say.

I get this - I also would not have liked a state of tune that generates excessive smoke for say 50 extra Nm - I am sure sacrificing some power will get you a good compromise and that the guys at Xcede for example - with all the data they have - would be able to dial it to your liking.

I don't like the smell of my car's exhaust after removing the cats for example - I would have preferred to go catless without the fumes. The ethanol makes it even worse. We can't always get what we want when we start modifying, but in your case I think you should be able to find a good middle ground.

Keep us posted - this is interesting.


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