F20 118i auto 8speed datalogged

Fuzz@tinyNET

///Member
Official Advertiser
I've used Virtual Dyno and Dynolicious before, and got ridiculous results... Like 0-100km/h in 2s on a stock E36 M3 :roflol:

What I did learn is that using your phone/tablet is a tricky affair as the app reads movement of the device, and not movement of the car - this is basic physics.

I'm in no way discrediting the tests - I think this is fun and a great talking point! However, take the results with a pinch of salt - as Devon pointed out, this is not hard and fast and totally accurate results, these are logs against which a comparison was made, so do with them what you must, but definitely don't discredit the man either for his work.

Just as a side note, this thread should not be closed... I'm watching it (to other mods)


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@ri

///Member
I believe any concerns here were posted with all due respect and appreciation. I don't see it as "a lot of negativity". Personally I feel the negativity comes with posts such as the recent few. (not necessarily the one directly above this post)

I don't think we should make a huge deal about questioning some app results. At the end of the day we are car enthusiasts and that is why we are on the forum. I think the point at which we cannot post what we feel (within reason) on a forum, it becomes more of a dictatorship rather than free speech. Again, within reason. I don't feel we should be rude, but one can say anything in a respectful manner as I feel was done here for the most part.

The results posted by phantom are surprising to many, including myself, and as an enthusiast I feel it would be great to confirm these! And I don't think I have to own a vBox or similar to have the right to suggest that. A forum is a discussion, and we were discussing the results.

Anyways, I shall not partake in a flame war so I shall cease to post in this thread.


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hoosain

New member
UpNcOmiNg! said:
ashman said:
I don't know much about electronics and computers and stuff so correct me if I am wrong...the GPS receiver in your cellphone is not as effective as those that one have on purpose-made GPS unit and definitely not as effective as units to the likes of a V-Box...

The receiver in your cellular phone/tablet suffers from a high satellite-to-device latency as its designed to not to consume battery life. In addition to this the the receiver shares "real-estate" with other components on your phone/tablet's motherboard hence reducing its antenna size and ultimately its accuracy is compromised.

Your application runs on top the phone's operating system and it being a phone shares the CPU time-slices with other software components whose treads cannot be set to "sleep" as they are considered to be core processes. I am not saying this is a factor of latency but it can be - one's phone/tablet is not a purpose made GPS tracking unit which a V-box is.

One's device can lock onto 50 satellites, but if there is this inherent latency on the device then it makes no difference. No software, regardless of cost would overcome this latency. A navigation (Tom-Tom/Garmin) unit may do a better job than your cell-phone in terms of accuracy but it too suffers some degree of latency.

To Phantoms words: "YOU DO NOT GET MORE ACCUTATE"
Sorry, I think you do. The most accurate method would be to establish a reference point on car and set that at the 0 metre mark and using a timer, measure how fast that reference point would get from the 0 mark to the 400 metre mark.

In terms of scaling, using one device to benchmark your cars may yield results based on some scale, it may happen to be an incorrect scale. Having one uncalibrated device yielding consistent results, can only be used to measure delta's and nothing more.

Sorry Mr. Phantom, I don't mean to discredit you, I once used similar applications to the one you have used so I know where you are coming from. I just feel I need to add my 2c and I must say some of the comments directed to your results seem to be immature and silly. You took the time to post them and I appreciate your contribution...Like I said earlier, I do not know much and I may be wrong - please correct me if I am.

Thank you.

I just want to know, did you guys ever do any logging and share it on the forum? I don't see how getting into this as you guys are is of any benefit whatsoever. As I have mentioned privately, this is information shared where Phantom has taken time out of his schedule to post up results he thought was relevant and interesting. He has done extensive testing as to where/what/how and this is all using his EXTENSIVE experience, which i'm even more sorry to say, NONE of you have. Full Bolts on cars are not drag cars, so I don't see how any of you have place to speak.
With regards to latency and GPS tracking, go buy a VBOX and run it against the software used and test its accuracy, then comment.
I dont see why such a big "hoo-haa" has to be made over these results or others. I am 100% sure that this gentleman whom you are questioning will outdrive any of you in your own cars any day of the week, which means you probably wont ever achieve his results in any case.

None of those who are questioning him have taken the time to ask the man himself, or take the time to meet him and see what he and his methodologies are. So yeah, you can type fast, datalog it and lets compare our typing speeds.


IF you dont believe the results, why not take it as entertainment then?
I mean we all watch Top Gear and we for a fact know that less and less of it is factual and more of it is entertainment these days



if you are directing the "full bolt on" statement at me
i do have a place to speak as i have been drag racing since the late 80s and have extensive knowledge on drag racing building drag cars as i have had many and i can tell you no one will OUTDRIVE me in my own car
this is how i know the times phantom is getting on his phone is no way comparable to real drag racing times that you would achieve at a track
 

MaX

New member
Fuzz said:
I've used Virtual Dyno and Dynolicious before, and got ridiculous results... Like 0-100km/h in 2s on a stock E36 M3 :roflol:

What I did learn is that using your phone/tablet is a tricky affair as the app reads movement of the device, and not movement of the car - this is basic physics.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

Most (read all) "tools" only work well when used right.
 

UpNcOmiNg!

Events Organiser
As highlighted as well, street and track are VERY VERY different.
We know Tarlton is slippery as heck on street tyres and usually rather cold as well.
Road are more grippy enabling MUCH better 60fts and 0-100s and in turn are warmer as well due to surface area (increased by undulations etc) as well as traffic. Just is what it is.
I accept the results based on HIS tests, not any other tests.
A nice read and comparison against the other cars he has tested, at least there is a measure of consistency there.

If anyone took offense to what I had to vent, it wasnt directed at anyone, I can assure you of that.
 

Rayzor

Well-known member
I see this thread to be exactly what it is. A guy doing data logs on the cars he owns and gets a chance to drive :thumbs:
Firstly thanks for taking the time to conduct these test. I too have my doubts on the results but Phantom is always willing to explain or address results posted. :ty:
Its not like he's trying to prove a point to anyone but merely sharing his findings.
On this specific model he achieved a better 0-100 and 1/4 mile than he got with the F20 125i he tested. does this mean that the 118 is superior to the 125....Well i say not really. Cars sometimes have a mind of their own. I personally have had days were i felt my car was just not running the way it should and on other days I was over the moon by its crazy power.

Like today, my car wasnt feeling so lekker, :fencelook: lined up next to a Fiesta ST(1.6T) He took of fast, I gave chase and I only started closing the gap around 19xkm/h. I make more power on the wheels than that car makes on the FLY and if it were logged with any data logging equipment, the results will show that they were pretty close for that time. :thumbs:
 

dvst8

///Member
As I proposed, run a test withy vbox and the phone app at the se time amd compare for the sake of science.

118 > 125 :fencelook: have I just wasted alot of money ?
 

r0ckf1re

Well-known member
dvst8 said:
As I proposed, run a test withy vbox and the phone app at the se time amd compare for the sake of science.

118 > 125 :fencelook: have I just wasted alot of money ?

or maybe you just cant drive as well as him :rollsmile:
 

Rayzor

Well-known member
r0ckf1re said:
dvst8 said:
As I proposed, run a test withy vbox and the phone app at the se time amd compare for the sake of science.

118 > 125 :fencelook: have I just wasted alot of money ?

or maybe you just cant drive as well as him :rollsmile:

:biglol::roflol::roflol:
 

skiet

Member
dvst8 said:
Ok, im willing to compare with phantom, vbox and his phone app in the same car and his best driving skills.

Let me know when we can test.

:thumbs:

Awesome idea!

I find Phantom's reviews very interresting and helpfull!

Please keep posting your threads, there are a lot more of us who take interest in your results and testing :ty:
 

Ashman

Honorary ///Member
UpNcOmiNg! said:
ashman said:
I don't know much about electronics and computers and stuff so correct me if I am wrong...the GPS receiver in your cellphone is not as effective as those that one have on purpose-made GPS unit and definitely not as effective as units to the likes of a V-Box...

The receiver in your cellular phone/tablet suffers from a high satellite-to-device latency as its designed to not to consume battery life. In addition to this the the receiver shares "real-estate" with other components on your phone/tablet's motherboard hence reducing its antenna size and ultimately its accuracy is compromised.

Your application runs on top the phone's operating system and it being a phone shares the CPU time-slices with other software components whose treads cannot be set to "sleep" as they are considered to be core processes. I am not saying this is a factor of latency but it can be - one's phone/tablet is not a purpose made GPS tracking unit which a V-box is.

One's device can lock onto 50 satellites, but if there is this inherent latency on the device then it makes no difference. No software, regardless of cost would overcome this latency. A navigation (Tom-Tom/Garmin) unit may do a better job than your cell-phone in terms of accuracy but it too suffers some degree of latency.

To Phantoms words: "YOU DO NOT GET MORE ACCUTATE"
Sorry, I think you do. The most accurate method would be to establish a reference point on car and set that at the 0 metre mark and using a timer, measure how fast that reference point would get from the 0 mark to the 400 metre mark.

In terms of scaling, using one device to benchmark your cars may yield results based on some scale, it may happen to be an incorrect scale. Having one uncalibrated device yielding consistent results, can only be used to measure delta's and nothing more.

Sorry Mr. Phantom, I don't mean to discredit you, I once used similar applications to the one you have used so I know where you are coming from. I just feel I need to add my 2c and I must say some of the comments directed to your results seem to be immature and silly. You took the time to post them and I appreciate your contribution...Like I said earlier, I do not know much and I may be wrong - please correct me if I am.

Thank you.

I just want to know, did you guys ever do any logging and share it on the forum? I don't see how getting into this as you guys are is of any benefit whatsoever. As I have mentioned privately, this is information shared where Phantom has taken time out of his schedule to post up results he thought was relevant and interesting. He has done extensive testing as to where/what/how and this is all using his EXTENSIVE experience, which i'm even more sorry to say, NONE of you have. Full Bolts on cars are not drag cars, so I don't see how any of you have place to speak.
With regards to latency and GPS tracking, go buy a VBOX and run it against the software used and test its accuracy, then comment.
I dont see why such a big "hoo-haa" has to be made over these results or others. I am 100% sure that this gentleman whom you are questioning will outdrive any of you in your own cars any day of the week, which means you probably wont ever achieve his results in any case.

None of those who are questioning him have taken the time to ask the man himself, or take the time to meet him and see what he and his methodologies are. So yeah, you can type fast, datalog it and lets compare our typing speeds.


IF you dont believe the results, why not take it as entertainment then?
I mean we all watch Top Gear and we for a fact know that less and less of it is factual and more of it is entertainment these days



Hello Devon

My post was not an attack on anyone neither did I question Mr. Phantom's driving ability and experience. It is quiet evident that you revere his accomplishments, and well done to him for achieving more than other's have in SA motorsport.

I did mention in my post, and if you didn't get it the first time, I do not know much about electronics and computers and I could be wrong. I did mention in my post that I have used similar applications and found them to be inaccurate and the inaccuracies were to a degree a result of the points I mentioned hence the reason for my post. Again, Devon, I would like to point out that I am no expert in the field and I could be wrong!

I did acknowledge that Mr. Phantom did take time to post his results and I did express my appreciation for that. Prior to that I did acknowledge that some comments - like the one stating that Tarlton use Racechrono - was "immature and silly".

I do question the accuracy of the results based on my experience with these cellphone applications, I did not question the fact that Mr. Phantom was able to achieve these results.

With regards to the private conversation, quite honestly Devon, I stopped paying attention to it when after you listed Mr. Phantom's accomplishments, you were unable to give me his name when I asked for it. With regard to your comment on purchasing a VBOX, I am sad to I cannot afford one at the moment so that is not going to happen anytime soon. I would like to add that I do not let anyone drive my car so I don't think Mr. Phantom would be performing the driving ability test using my vehicle. I would be the first to admit that I am no expert driver so yes, Mr. Phantom would out-drive me any day. One last one - I am not fast with my typing so I will yield poor results in that competition as well.

I have had my say. I said my 2c, but your reply to my message cost me another 2c...so I have spent 4c here. You can reply to it, or your friends can - quite honestly I don't care who does. I am mature enough to admit where I am wrong and move on...
 

Fuzz@tinyNET

///Member
Official Advertiser
MaX said:
Fuzz said:
I've used Virtual Dyno and Dynolicious before, and got ridiculous results... Like 0-100km/h in 2s on a stock E36 M3 :roflol:

What I did learn is that using your phone/tablet is a tricky affair as the app reads movement of the device, and not movement of the car - this is basic physics.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

Most (read all) "tools" only work well when used right.

Care to elaborate more in this?


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2
 

S1NGH 911

BMWFanatics Advertiser
Official Advertiser
r0ckf1re said:
dvst8 said:
As I proposed, run a test withy vbox and the phone app at the se time amd compare for the sake of science.

118 > 125 :fencelook: have I just wasted alot of money ?

or maybe you just cant drive as well as him :rollsmile:

:roflol:
 

MaX

New member
Fuzz said:
MaX said:
Fuzz said:
I've used Virtual Dyno and Dynolicious before, and got ridiculous results... Like 0-100km/h in 2s on a stock E36 M3 :roflol:

What I did learn is that using your phone/tablet is a tricky affair as the app reads movement of the device, and not movement of the car - this is basic physics.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

Most (read all) "tools" only work well when used right.

Care to elaborate more in this?


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

Just backing your statement :thumbs: Accelerometer based timing equipment needs to be setup specifically else it will give funny readings.
 

Chavoos

Active member
Results on racechrono do seem optimistic.

Lots of debate going on here.
Let's settle it by taking it to the drag strip and hooking up the race chrono at the strip and compare the results. We can have a fanatics meetup as well.

Willing to test my dynolicious as well.




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phantom

Member
dvst8 said:
Ok, im willing to compare with phantom, vbox and his phone app in the same car and his best driving skills.

Let me know when we can test.

:thumbs:
There is a race meeting at the Vanderbijlpark airfield where we test on Sunday 1st June 2014.Bring your car helmet and jacket or long sleeve shirt.Hoosain try to make it i am sure your car will break 13 on this circuit.
I will bring Racechrono and you guys can bring anything else you want to.We can put them all in one car and then see what comes out in the wash.
Guys you can all drive your own cars because it's all about the equipment.
Time 8am to 5pm.


Rayzor said:
I see this thread to be exactly what it is. A guy doing data logs on the cars he owns and gets a chance to drive :thumbs:
Firstly thanks for taking the time to conduct these test. I too have my doubts on the results but Phantom is always willing to explain or address results posted. :ty:
Its not like he's trying to prove a point to anyone but merely sharing his findings.
On this specific model he achieved a better 0-100 and 1/4 mile than he got with the F20 125i he tested. does this mean that the 118 is superior to the 125....Well i say not really. Cars sometimes have a mind of their own. I personally have had days were i felt my car was just not running the way it should and on other days I was over the moon by its crazy power.

Like today, my car wasnt feeling so lekker, :fencelook: lined up next to a Fiesta ST(1.6T) He took of fast, I gave chase and I only started closing the gap around 19xkm/h. I make more power on the wheels than that car makes on the FLY and if it were logged with any data logging equipment, the results will show that they were pretty close for that time. :thumbs:
I took flack on the 125i but i think you have to be part of the test to sometimes appreciate why the difference.Without all the information that only you as the tester have there are bound to be questions.That specific car was a dealer vehicle with a performance exhaust and massive 19" wheels.The car was an absolute dog off the line and at that time my feeling was that that specific car would have been a lot faster had it been a six speed manual and not auto.With manual i would have revved it up to 5000rpm before dropping the clutch.
The 118i on the other hand is a real cracker off the line with it's auto.
 

dvst8

///Member
Thanks Phantom

Unfortunatley I cant make this weekend, already have some family commitments.

Id be happy to meet you at your private test strip one evening next week with the vbox and we can them compare results.

No politics or issues, all in the name if science. If Im wrong, ill be the first to come back here and admit it.

:thumbs:
 

phantom

Member
dvst8 said:
Thanks Phantom

Unfortunatley I cant make this weekend, already have some family commitments.

Id be happy to meet you at your private test strip one evening next week with the vbox and we can them compare results.

No politics or issues, all in the name if science. If Im wrong, ill be the first to come back here and admit it.

:thumbs:
Anytime just give me a PM then i can give you instructions how to get here.
 

Andy1GP

///Member
Good Job guys I'm really happy this thread is so productive :) I'll be sure to join on the private testing. Also their airstrip is not to be laughed off. It's a good place to do measurements and testing as well. Grip is superior to tarlton.
 
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