F10 M5 Dyno - Stock

[ANiMOSiTY]

What's interesting is how much over the official figures this is.
It's not new news or anything - the US and UK guys told us this back in 2012.
But to see it with my own eyes, here in SA is something spectacular.

Officially, they make 412kW. That's measured at the flywheel.
I read a few interesting articles about drivetrain losses.

Basically it came down to transient and frictional losses in the gearbox accounting for 1 to 2%. Most losses are in the differential in RWD and AWD cars because of the change of direction of torque by 90 degrees. RWD diff accounts for 6 to 10%
FWD cars lose less, due to engines and tranny being transversally mounted.
(Full article here: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/ )

So the industry standard "myth" of 15% isn't always true.

Let's assume the F10 M5 is super efficient and the diff only saps 6% with the 'box (DCT) and everything else accounting for a further 3%.
That's a very conservative 9% drivetrain loss.

Still, that means the car should make 374kW at the wheels.
(And again, my power figures are in the ballpark of what the US and UK guys get.)
So, actually, this is basically a 450kW / 600hp car.
Why so underrated from the factory?

 

[Kaaba]

Ani...that M5 is super, reminds me of those old days when you had an Opel and participating in opel owners club....love it!!!indeed M5 FTW

 

[Sleepa]

Firstly congrats!

Secondly has anyone Dyno'd one at the coast? :skit:

Have you driven the car at the coast? Im sure it would be even more mental than it already is...

 

[Teezy_F30]

What's interesting is how much over the official figures this is.
It's not new news or anything - the US and UK guys told us this back in 2012.
But to see it with my own eyes, here in SA is something spectacular.

Officially, they make 412kW. That's measured at the flywheel.
I read a few interesting articles about drivetrain losses.

Basically it came down to transient and frictional losses in the gearbox accounting for 1 to 2%. Most losses are in the differential in RWD and AWD cars because of the change of direction of torque by 90 degrees. RWD diff accounts for 6 to 10%
FWD cars lose less, due to engines and tranny being transversally mounted.
(Full article here: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/ )

So the industry standard "myth" of 15% isn't always true.

Let's assume the F10 M5 is super efficient and the diff only saps 6% with the 'box (DCT) and everything else accounting for a further 3%.
That's a very conservative 9% drivetrain loss.

Still, that means the car should make 374kW at the wheels.
(And again, my power figures are in the ballpark of what the US and UK guys get.)
So, actually, this is basically a 450kW / 600hp car.
Why so underrated from the factory?

maybe bmw is pulling something similar to vw .. who seem to quote wheel power on the newer cars and not actually flywheel power ..

 

[TurboLlew]

IIRC I did 418wkw bone stock. It is absolutely making more than 412kw. The lowest I have heard of was 380wkw on a cool run which was also in the wrong gear. Car hits the speed limiter in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear. Has anyone with the speed limit delete dynoed?

After 3 runs I got 389wkw on a hot day so heat soak results in the power pulling back quite a bit, but its still a lot of power. The dynos in SA have no hope of providing enough cooling to the front for the radiators, oil cooler or transmission cooler (and even if they have great fans, there is the matter of directing it correctly). Won't dyno again in a hurry. I'm happy mine is in a similar ball park to all the others LOL.

Also that 30% correction factor is NOT adding 30% to the results. It is accounting for air pressure difference from altitude IIRC.

I know of someone who dynoed over 450 stock in Durban. Not personally - it was on Facebook from Experience.

 

[Donovan2412]

IIRC I did 418wkw bone stock. It is absolutely making more than 412kw. The lowest I have heard of was 380wkw on a cool run which was also in the wrong gear. Car hits the speed limiter in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear. Has anyone with the speed limit delete dynoed?

After 3 runs I got 389wkw on a hot day so heat soak results in the power pulling back quite a bit, but its still a lot of power. The dynos in SA have no hope of providing enough cooling to the front for the radiators, oil cooler or transmission cooler (and even if they have great fans, there is the matter of directing it correctly). Won't dyno again in a hurry. I'm happy mine is in a similar ball park to all the others LOL.

Also that 30% correction factor is NOT adding 30% to the results. It is accounting for air pressure difference from altitude IIRC.

I know of someone who dynoed over 450 stock in Durban. Not personally - it was on Facebook from Experience.

30% is a bit much for Altitude differences don't you think...

 

[Bugger]

So in other words, these cars are just deep sleepers :fencelook:

 

[TurboLlew]

IIRC I did 418wkw bone stock. It is absolutely making more than 412kw. The lowest I have heard of was 380wkw on a cool run which was also in the wrong gear. Car hits the speed limiter in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear. Has anyone with the speed limit delete dynoed?

After 3 runs I got 389wkw on a hot day so heat soak results in the power pulling back quite a bit, but its still a lot of power. The dynos in SA have no hope of providing enough cooling to the front for the radiators, oil cooler or transmission cooler (and even if they have great fans, there is the matter of directing it correctly). Won't dyno again in a hurry. I'm happy mine is in a similar ball park to all the others LOL.

Also that 30% correction factor is NOT adding 30% to the results. It is accounting for air pressure difference from altitude IIRC.

I know of someone who dynoed over 450 stock in Durban. Not personally - it was on Facebook from Experience.

30% is a bit much for Altitude differences don't you think...

Well its a 20% difference in air pressure at JHB altitude. There are also corrections for temperature and humidity that are made on the day at the dyno. (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html). 30 is a bit high but I've had 22% used. There is also supposed to be a different factor for NA vs. turbo. In theory you should dyno similarly at coast and altitude if the correction factors were accurate. It seems the coast has happy dynos.

Either way a dyno is a tool. The shape of the curve and inferences you can make as well as on-the-same-day comparisons are the important part.

 

[Donovan2412]

IIRC I did 418wkw bone stock. It is absolutely making more than 412kw. The lowest I have heard of was 380wkw on a cool run which was also in the wrong gear. Car hits the speed limiter in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear. Has anyone with the speed limit delete dynoed?

After 3 runs I got 389wkw on a hot day so heat soak results in the power pulling back quite a bit, but its still a lot of power. The dynos in SA have no hope of providing enough cooling to the front for the radiators, oil cooler or transmission cooler (and even if they have great fans, there is the matter of directing it correctly). Won't dyno again in a hurry. I'm happy mine is in a similar ball park to all the others LOL.

Also that 30% correction factor is NOT adding 30% to the results. It is accounting for air pressure difference from altitude IIRC.

I know of someone who dynoed over 450 stock in Durban. Not personally - it was on Facebook from Experience.

30% is a bit much for Altitude differences don't you think...

Well its a 20% difference in air pressure at JHB altitude. There are also corrections for temperature and humidity that are made on the day at the dyno. (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html). 30 is a bit high but I've had 22% used. There is also supposed to be a different factor for NA vs. turbo. In theory you should dyno similarly at coast and altitude if the correction factors were accurate. It seems the coast has happy dynos.

But it's turbo...

Ok I see

 

[TurboLlew]

IIRC I did 418wkw bone stock. It is absolutely making more than 412kw. The lowest I have heard of was 380wkw on a cool run which was also in the wrong gear. Car hits the speed limiter in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear. Has anyone with the speed limit delete dynoed?

After 3 runs I got 389wkw on a hot day so heat soak results in the power pulling back quite a bit, but its still a lot of power. The dynos in SA have no hope of providing enough cooling to the front for the radiators, oil cooler or transmission cooler (and even if they have great fans, there is the matter of directing it correctly). Won't dyno again in a hurry. I'm happy mine is in a similar ball park to all the others LOL.

Also that 30% correction factor is NOT adding 30% to the results. It is accounting for air pressure difference from altitude IIRC.

I know of someone who dynoed over 450 stock in Durban. Not personally - it was on Facebook from Experience.

30% is a bit much for Altitude differences don't you think...

Well its a 20% difference in air pressure at JHB altitude. There are also corrections for temperature and humidity that are made on the day at the dyno. (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html). 30 is a bit high but I've had 22% used. There is also supposed to be a different factor for NA vs. turbo. In theory you should dyno similarly at coast and altitude if the correction factors were accurate. It seems the coast has happy dynos.

But it's turbo...

Ok I see

Even on a turbo car that is less affected by altitude there is still some power loss, extra lag and (from my scooby days) if you look at your wastegate duty cycles at coast vs. altitude there is a big difference in how hard the turbo is actually working coast vs. nearly +1800m.

 

[Donovan2412]

IIRC I did 418wkw bone stock. It is absolutely making more than 412kw. The lowest I have heard of was 380wkw on a cool run which was also in the wrong gear. Car hits the speed limiter in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear. Has anyone with the speed limit delete dynoed?

After 3 runs I got 389wkw on a hot day so heat soak results in the power pulling back quite a bit, but its still a lot of power. The dynos in SA have no hope of providing enough cooling to the front for the radiators, oil cooler or transmission cooler (and even if they have great fans, there is the matter of directing it correctly). Won't dyno again in a hurry. I'm happy mine is in a similar ball park to all the others LOL.

Also that 30% correction factor is NOT adding 30% to the results. It is accounting for air pressure difference from altitude IIRC.

I know of someone who dynoed over 450 stock in Durban. Not personally - it was on Facebook from Experience.

30% is a bit much for Altitude differences don't you think...

Well its a 20% difference in air pressure at JHB altitude. There are also corrections for temperature and humidity that are made on the day at the dyno. (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html). 30 is a bit high but I've had 22% used. There is also supposed to be a different factor for NA vs. turbo. In theory you should dyno similarly at coast and altitude if the correction factors were accurate. It seems the coast has happy dynos.

But it's turbo...

Ok I see

Even on a turbo car that is less affected by altitude there is still some power loss, extra lag and (from my scooby days) if you look at your wastegate duty cycles at coast vs. altitude there is a big difference in how hard the turbo is actually working coast vs. nearly +1800m.

Ah I see:=):

 

[Kimeran]

But then, they should have zero correction factor at the coast. Correct?

 

[TurboLlew]

But then, they should have zero correction factor at the coast. Correct?

Yes... a very low correction factor just for the ambient temperature and humidity affecting local air pressure on the day.

There is also the effect of different load simulations/factors but that is another story. Its easy to fudge dyno numbers with the various factors at play

 

[Gbmw]

Got 405wkw on mine stock. Good cars,save for rears tho

 

[Kolbe]

The M10 M5 engine is an absolute beast!!!

 

[nait]

These cars are sleepers..i remember once racing one on a 120km roll with my e36 it instantly opens and keeps going. It made me feel something was wrong with my car.