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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
E46 M3 *No longer Supercharged :)
- Thread starter Andy1GP
- Start date
Andy1GP
///Member
No stress Alain. I know you didnt work on the car so don't feel bad. I just like to post what i find and how I learn etc.. thats why I joined the forum. To learn. And if I can give something back to the community that makes me happy.
Moving along
The HPF beauty!
I like the ideas of having a fmic with the hof manifold. Then I can also have a split meth injection. One on the main intake tract as well as port injection. Reason being the temperature sensor will only read the first reduction after the main tract meth. But not the port. I think that should be sufficient cooling as well as flow a hell of a lot better.
test fitting
Seems a lot of R+D still to take place.
For now im going to reassemble everything. Check valve clearances and have alex Check the vanos timing. Hopefully we can still test drive the car today.
Moving along
The HPF beauty!
I like the ideas of having a fmic with the hof manifold. Then I can also have a split meth injection. One on the main intake tract as well as port injection. Reason being the temperature sensor will only read the first reduction after the main tract meth. But not the port. I think that should be sufficient cooling as well as flow a hell of a lot better.
test fitting
Seems a lot of R+D still to take place.
For now im going to reassemble everything. Check valve clearances and have alex Check the vanos timing. Hopefully we can still test drive the car today.
Carbon
///Member
Andy, Port injected W/M is a fickle bitch and unless you know of a company that would build a custom system, tune it and have done it before successfully, I would steer clear.
There are a few reasons, but the main one is the response of a W/M system is too slow to react to valve timing, so you get pooling and not mist going into the chamber. It is bad on many levels.
I have heard of crazy PWM systems that can respond quickly enough to make it reliable, but all the valves I know of have a response time way too slow to work.
Rather get a PWM system (eg aquamist) and inject it just before the manifold. Injector sizing is key. Also, DO progressive kits are not really progressive. Go with PWM or a custom multi-stage setup.
There are a few reasons, but the main one is the response of a W/M system is too slow to react to valve timing, so you get pooling and not mist going into the chamber. It is bad on many levels.
I have heard of crazy PWM systems that can respond quickly enough to make it reliable, but all the valves I know of have a response time way too slow to work.
Rather get a PWM system (eg aquamist) and inject it just before the manifold. Injector sizing is key. Also, DO progressive kits are not really progressive. Go with PWM or a custom multi-stage setup.
Andy1GP
///Member
I see the pics are a bit crappy. Will take more later on.
And for everyone's info everything Praleen did today was redye only. Unless the leather is badly torn he can turn it around and salvage it. The better the condition to start with the better the result.
I was very reluctant at first to have good quality leather redyed but the results are incredible. I am very happy.
Here is his details if anyone is interested.
082 600 1441
And for everyone's info everything Praleen did today was redye only. Unless the leather is badly torn he can turn it around and salvage it. The better the condition to start with the better the result.
I was very reluctant at first to have good quality leather redyed but the results are incredible. I am very happy.
Here is his details if anyone is interested.
082 600 1441
Andy1GP
///Member
Carbon@TheFanatics said:
This is why I am Glad to be part of the forum. Thx for the top tips.
I think to be safe for now I'll just stick to the current setup. Everything cleaned and with more water in the charge cooling setup it should run low enough temps to keep things happy.
I might drop the boost by fitting a larger pulley as .7 bar is slightly frightening when one thinks thats on std compression.
I am running LM octane plus on every 50L combined with permanently running the WMI so to my uneducated mind that seems sufficient for anti detonation. Please chime in.
I'm not planning on drag racing the car at the strip or anything like that but also want it to be reliable and usable as a daily.
Carbon
///Member
You might even be fine without octane booster, but only testing would show that for sure, so keep running it.
A FMIC is more efficient than a charge cooler, albeit at the cost of throttle response, but charge coolers definitely aren't bad if dine right.
I would recommend that you install an intake temp sensor after the water injection if there isn't one already. That would give you valuable data as to how effective the cooling is. Water has a massive cooling effect, so I doubt you will have problems.
Also, if the car is tuned for W/M, make sure that you have a failsafe for every possible failure of the system. Reliability is a function of planning and designing for every possible outcome.
A FMIC is more efficient than a charge cooler, albeit at the cost of throttle response, but charge coolers definitely aren't bad if dine right.
I would recommend that you install an intake temp sensor after the water injection if there isn't one already. That would give you valuable data as to how effective the cooling is. Water has a massive cooling effect, so I doubt you will have problems.
Also, if the car is tuned for W/M, make sure that you have a failsafe for every possible failure of the system. Reliability is a function of planning and designing for every possible outcome.
Andy1GP
///Member
Awesome thx. Its not mapped for meth and I don't intend to have it either. Only used for cooling and anti knock. Im quite happy with the power. It just seems to be running way too rich. I can't see the afr values. Only in voltage which doesn't help me much :/Carbon@TheFanatics said:
Vanos about to be removed.
The plate seals are done :joy:
Carbon
///Member
Great work so far Andy, I like your approach to maintenance.
DO kits, and most other progressive kits, vary in injected volume by changing the flow rate of the pump, thus altering the pressure in the system and as an effect also the nozzle flow rate.
Problem is, these nozzles require at least 4 bar to atomize, the check valve also reduces nozzle pressure by almost 2 bar and you still have to overcome manifold pressure. These kits use ShurFlo model 800 pumps that are rated at 10bar, although they claim to output 20bar, they wont last at those pressures. Then you have to increase pressure 4 times to double the nozzle flow. So you need 4 bar nozzle pressure to atomize, and 16 bar nozzle (not pump) pressure to double the original flow. In tests these pumps have been shown to have an increase of 50% at best. For it to be truly effective over a large rev range, you need at least a 200% increase.
This is not enough to make it function across a large rev range, so you are still very limited. The other problem is how slow the pumps are to vary speed under pressure, much slower than an engine can rev, so you don't get enough W/M when you need it. A two stage system has a larger range of operation, less parts to fail, responds faster and is cheaper.
PWM is better still, although it still has drawbacks.
Hope this helps.
ps. sorry for the thread hijack Andy
Enzio said:
DO kits, and most other progressive kits, vary in injected volume by changing the flow rate of the pump, thus altering the pressure in the system and as an effect also the nozzle flow rate.
Problem is, these nozzles require at least 4 bar to atomize, the check valve also reduces nozzle pressure by almost 2 bar and you still have to overcome manifold pressure. These kits use ShurFlo model 800 pumps that are rated at 10bar, although they claim to output 20bar, they wont last at those pressures. Then you have to increase pressure 4 times to double the nozzle flow. So you need 4 bar nozzle pressure to atomize, and 16 bar nozzle (not pump) pressure to double the original flow. In tests these pumps have been shown to have an increase of 50% at best. For it to be truly effective over a large rev range, you need at least a 200% increase.
This is not enough to make it function across a large rev range, so you are still very limited. The other problem is how slow the pumps are to vary speed under pressure, much slower than an engine can rev, so you don't get enough W/M when you need it. A two stage system has a larger range of operation, less parts to fail, responds faster and is cheaper.
PWM is better still, although it still has drawbacks.
Hope this helps.
ps. sorry for the thread hijack Andy
