E46 M3 makes 215kw on wheels at altitude!

[Whacko]

WTF now thts awsome m getting ther dnt worry FAG boy:rollsmile:

We finally got round to tuning Radz car for altitude. At the last dyno day we just ran it with the map tuned for sea-level. We ended up with 287.3hp on the wheels, which is just on 215wkw.

Put some sky in your tires :thumbs:

 

[tappet]

Good stuff

How many km's on your car please?

 

[Legacy]

So why does this car "only" make 215wkw with cams and stage 3 when this one with exhaust and stage 1 makes 250wkw?

http://www.xcedeperformance.co.za/2011/04/xcede-e46-m3-chip-full-exhaust-performs/

...

 

[DROP IT - ZN]

So why does this car "only" make 215wkw with cams and stage 3 when this one with exhaust and stage 1 makes 250wkw?

http://www.xcedeperformance.co.za/2011/04/xcede-e46-m3-chip-full-exhaust-performs/

...

Interesting....

 

[Arbee]

So why does this car "only" make 215wkw with cams and stage 3 when this one with exhaust and stage 1 makes 250wkw?

http://www.xcedeperformance.co.za/2011/04/xcede-e46-m3-chip-full-exhaust-performs/

...

The silver cab M3 makes just under 200wkw. 250kw is engine output. It only got Xcede Software and Xcede Exhaust. Stock headers!

First Paragraph of the Feature on the above link:
The E46 M3 has always been a good platform & now with some simple mods it is transformed. The mid-range torque is dramatically increased & top end power revs up much quicker & holds on much longer with the chip & full exhaust. The engine output is raised by 50kw & torque by almost 50NM!

 

[Yuvan]

yoh!!!! raise:

 

[Legacy]

So why does this car "only" make 215wkw with cams and stage 3 when this one with exhaust and stage 1 makes 250wkw?

http://www.xcedeperformance.co.za/2011/04/xcede-e46-m3-chip-full-exhaust-performs/

...

The silver cab M3 makes just under 200wkw. 250kw is engine output. It only got Xcede Software and Xcede Exhaust. Stock headers!

First Paragraph of the Feature on the above link:
The E46 M3 has always been a good platform & now with some simple mods it is transformed. The mid-range torque is dramatically increased & top end power revs up much quicker & holds on much longer with the chip & full exhaust. The engine output is raised by 50kw & torque by almost 50NM!

...

 

[Arbee]

So why does this car "only" make 215wkw with cams and stage 3 when this one with exhaust and stage 1 makes 250wkw?

http://www.xcedeperformance.co.za/2011/04/xcede-e46-m3-chip-full-exhaust-performs/

...

The silver cab M3 makes just under 200wkw. 250kw is engine output. It only got Xcede Software and Xcede Exhaust. Stock headers!

First Paragraph of the Feature on the above link:
The E46 M3 has always been a good platform & now with some simple mods it is transformed. The mid-range torque is dramatically increased & top end power revs up much quicker & holds on much longer with the chip & full exhaust. The engine output is raised by 50kw & torque by almost 50NM!

...

Your point? Thats a flywheel dyno graph. I know this cos its my brothers car and i have the wheel kw dyno sheet. raise:

 

[SPIDER]

AND SO IT ALL STARTS AGAIN :rollsmile::fencelook:

 

[Mike1]

Well done gents! Great work from Excede as usual! :thumbs:

 

[Legacy]

So why does this car "only" make 215wkw with cams and stage 3 when this one with exhaust and stage 1 makes 250wkw?

http://www.xcedeperformance.co.za/2011/04/xcede-e46-m3-chip-full-exhaust-performs/

...

The silver cab M3 makes just under 200wkw. 250kw is engine output. It only got Xcede Software and Xcede Exhaust. Stock headers!

First Paragraph of the Feature on the above link:
The E46 M3 has always been a good platform & now with some simple mods it is transformed. The mid-range torque is dramatically increased & top end power revs up much quicker & holds on much longer with the chip & full exhaust. The engine output is raised by 50kw & torque by almost 50NM!

...

Your point? Thats a flywheel dyno graph. I know this cos its my brothers car and i have the wheel kw dyno sheet. raise:

Have you ever seen an engine dyno? There is never a car attached to the engine...

:biglol:

I cannot see how an NA M3 can makes 302 kw at the flywheel, its simply not possible.

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6436

 

[Arbee]

So why does this car "only" make 215wkw with cams and stage 3 when this one with exhaust and stage 1 makes 250wkw?

http://www.xcedeperformance.co.za/2011/04/xcede-e46-m3-chip-full-exhaust-performs/

...

The silver cab M3 makes just under 200wkw. 250kw is engine output. It only got Xcede Software and Xcede Exhaust. Stock headers!

First Paragraph of the Feature on the above link:
The E46 M3 has always been a good platform & now with some simple mods it is transformed. The mid-range torque is dramatically increased & top end power revs up much quicker & holds on much longer with the chip & full exhaust. The engine output is raised by 50kw & torque by almost 50NM!

...

Your point? Thats a flywheel dyno graph. I know this cos its my brothers car and i have the wheel kw dyno sheet. raise:

Have you ever seen an engine dyno? There is never a car attached to the engine...

:biglol:

I cannot see how an NA M3 can makes 302 kw at the flywheel, its simply not possible.

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6436

Legacy, im not going to argue with you. I know, for a fact that that is the flywheel graph.

Besides, Why would i say that the car makes less power than the graph you see? :biglol:

 

[Legacy]

Before you read my ravings, read this write up by Jim Comforti on the subject of software, et al (posted at RoadFly E46 M3 Forum 5/31/03) - If you don't know who Comforti is in regard to tuning BMW's you really should find out.

Folks, I've said it once.. I'll say it again.. there is very little cheap horsepower (read: from software) to be gained from the E46 M3.
I'll bet that I've spent more butt time and dyno time combined than anyone else in America (outside of factory folk) with the S54B32 motor in both of it's forms. In 2 different M3's (my wife's and Josh MacMurray's) and my M Roadster.
In the M3 form, there are SIX legitimate RWHP to be gained.
That's it.
Software and HEADERS/CATS yeild about 8RWHP, but a significant gain in torque midrange (about 10 lb-ft RWT).
See, there are esssentially 5 things you can tune at wide open throttle on the M3. I doubt if most tuners even mess with the third one below.. but it does exist.
You can tune the fuel.
You can tune the ignition timing
You can tune the actual opening of the throttle plates (as opposed to pressing the pedal.. 100% of pedal does NOT mean 100% of throttle)
You can tune the timing/sync of the intake cam VANOS
You can tune the timing/sync of the exhaust cam VANOS
You can do all 5 of those in some happy combinations.
You can spend too many hours on a dyno until you are cuckoo from the CO and HC fumes you're breathing.
You will gain SIX REAL HP.
Same Day, Same Car, Same Dyno, Same FUEL, everything.
That's it.. SIX.
We've done it.. software is being released THIS week.
(It's real easy to play dyno games with this motor by changing fuels and then running the ignition timing up to create GOBS of power with say 110 octane race fuel.. the same timing with 91-94 octane street fuels will destroy the motor before you can say "Oh sh*t there goes my motor!)
To gain more you need to change HARDWARE.
To go from the 270something range.. 272-278 or so. to the 295-300 range you need to change:
Headers (and necessarily the CATS), then you need to open up the motor and using $1000+ of special tools and a LOT of finesse and patience you need to change the cams.
If you use BIG cams.. say 280 or greater.. you have NO error in the position/sync of the cams statically. If you screw it up, you WILL bend valves before the word "GO".
We've done the cam installs.. (No, we didn't bend valves
To gain about 10% in power you will spend around $6,000 in parts alone
(Yes, OWWWCH!.. and just think, we have to buy all this stuff just to test it.. then pull it off and most times JUNK it because it didn't work like we wanted.. at least we get to keep the "good" stuff tho)
Note, I didn't include any software costs, and software is absolutely NEEDED if you goto headers/cams. Those who don't believe me can try it and report back with the melted motors. (Hint: in one test of cams without software the vehicle hit the "lean stop" and set a MIL within a few hours) that ONE test was the last w/o software as we found the fueling to be significantly leaner than even the "lean stop".
With tuned software, you can get about +8-10 with headers/cats alone and anywhere from 14-30 with headers/cats/cams.
For those who want to argue.. let me offer you this.. there are quite a few in this country successfully running cams/headers/etc. They got their software from a source outside the contintental US. They know who they are and who I am talking about in a warm climate with very good Pina Coladas. I developed that software and have been "secretly" working on this stuff for WELL over 2 years now.
The funny thing is that the numbers they are all getting (300+rwhp) are coming from experimental software (not finished) of mine.. the final software gives no more HP really, but you can run cams and not stall.
Jim C.

PS: Now everyone can pipe in how "someone" got 300rwhp from some magic intake and software.. it's not real people. trust me it isn't.
Ask any REAL tuner out there and they'll tell you.'
If you feel the need to waste money, I'd suggest you find a worthy church, charity, or even a local watering hole and blow your money their instead of wasting it on smoke and mirrors.

Source: http://m3.madrussian.net/modnotmod.shtml

 

[dvst8]

Legacy, im not going to argue with you. I know, for a fact that that is the flywheel graph.

Besides, Why would i say that the car makes less power than the graph you see? :biglol:

:roflol:

 

[Arbee]

Before you read my ravings, read this write up by Jim Comforti on the subject of software, et al (posted at RoadFly E46 M3 Forum 5/31/03) - If you don't know who Comforti is in regard to tuning BMW's you really should find out.

Folks, I've said it once.. I'll say it again.. there is very little cheap horsepower (read: from software) to be gained from the E46 M3.
I'll bet that I've spent more butt time and dyno time combined than anyone else in America (outside of factory folk) with the S54B32 motor in both of it's forms. In 2 different M3's (my wife's and Josh MacMurray's) and my M Roadster.
In the M3 form, there are SIX legitimate RWHP to be gained.
That's it.
Software and HEADERS/CATS yeild about 8RWHP, but a significant gain in torque midrange (about 10 lb-ft RWT).
See, there are esssentially 5 things you can tune at wide open throttle on the M3. I doubt if most tuners even mess with the third one below.. but it does exist.
You can tune the fuel.
You can tune the ignition timing
You can tune the actual opening of the throttle plates (as opposed to pressing the pedal.. 100% of pedal does NOT mean 100% of throttle)
You can tune the timing/sync of the intake cam VANOS
You can tune the timing/sync of the exhaust cam VANOS
You can do all 5 of those in some happy combinations.
You can spend too many hours on a dyno until you are cuckoo from the CO and HC fumes you're breathing.
You will gain SIX REAL HP.
Same Day, Same Car, Same Dyno, Same FUEL, everything.
That's it.. SIX.
We've done it.. software is being released THIS week.
(It's real easy to play dyno games with this motor by changing fuels and then running the ignition timing up to create GOBS of power with say 110 octane race fuel.. the same timing with 91-94 octane street fuels will destroy the motor before you can say "Oh sh*t there goes my motor!)
To gain more you need to change HARDWARE.
To go from the 270something range.. 272-278 or so. to the 295-300 range you need to change:
Headers (and necessarily the CATS), then you need to open up the motor and using $1000+ of special tools and a LOT of finesse and patience you need to change the cams.
If you use BIG cams.. say 280 or greater.. you have NO error in the position/sync of the cams statically. If you screw it up, you WILL bend valves before the word "GO".
We've done the cam installs.. (No, we didn't bend valves
To gain about 10% in power you will spend around $6,000 in parts alone
(Yes, OWWWCH!.. and just think, we have to buy all this stuff just to test it.. then pull it off and most times JUNK it because it didn't work like we wanted.. at least we get to keep the "good" stuff tho)
Note, I didn't include any software costs, and software is absolutely NEEDED if you goto headers/cams. Those who don't believe me can try it and report back with the melted motors. (Hint: in one test of cams without software the vehicle hit the "lean stop" and set a MIL within a few hours) that ONE test was the last w/o software as we found the fueling to be significantly leaner than even the "lean stop".
With tuned software, you can get about +8-10 with headers/cats alone and anywhere from 14-30 with headers/cats/cams.
For those who want to argue.. let me offer you this.. there are quite a few in this country successfully running cams/headers/etc. They got their software from a source outside the contintental US. They know who they are and who I am talking about in a warm climate with very good Pina Coladas. I developed that software and have been "secretly" working on this stuff for WELL over 2 years now.
The funny thing is that the numbers they are all getting (300+rwhp) are coming from experimental software (not finished) of mine.. the final software gives no more HP really, but you can run cams and not stall.
Jim C.

PS: Now everyone can pipe in how "someone" got 300rwhp from some magic intake and software.. it's not real people. trust me it isn't.
Ask any REAL tuner out there and they'll tell you.'
If you feel the need to waste money, I'd suggest you find a worthy church, charity, or even a local watering hole and blow your money their instead of wasting it on smoke and mirrors.

Source: http://m3.madrussian.net/modnotmod.shtml

Does not change the fact that you comparing a wkw figure with an engine kw figure.

With regards to NA M3's only increasing max of 6kw with just software (According to Jim), i cannot comment on that.

 

[Legacy]

Considering that the drivetrain and altitude results in a (roughly) 22% loss in engine power at the back wheels this would result in a 252kw M3 making around 195wkw, since most M3's (I have seen) make around 185-195wkw this seems to add up, however a 50kw engine increase would result in a 39wkw increase. This means that say a 185wkw M3 would now make 224wkw after a chip and exhaust.

If I'm the only one that finds this utterly ludicrous then I will keep my mouth shut, but to be fair, everyone here can do basic arithmetic (hopefully) and the numbers don't add up.

So if the car made just under 200wkw like you said, say 198wkw this translates into (very roughly) 253kw at the flywheel, how on any planet is this an increase of 50kw over stock....

 

[Whacko]

In the end, what matters is 1/4 mile. Get this car to the drags and post the official times. Its well known that dyno's differ and could also be manipulated by drag losses etc. The ultimate test = 1/4 mile :thumbs:

---

Considering that the drivetrain and altitude results in a (roughly) 22% loss in engine power at the back wheels this would result in a 252kw M3 making around 195wkw, since most M3's (I have seen) make around 185-195wkw this seems to add up, however a 50kw engine increase would result in a 39wkw increase. This means that say a 185wkw M3 would now make 224wkw after a chip and exhaust.

If I'm the only one that finds this utterly ludicrous then I will keep my mouth shut, but to be fair, everyone here can do basic arithmetic (hopefully) and the numbers don't add up.

So if the car made just under 200wkw like you said, say 198wkw this translates into (very roughly) 253kw at the flywheel, how on any planet is this an increase of 50kw over stock....

You're not the only one, count me in as well. :rollsmile:

 

[wikk3d88]

watchout your comments guise. laptops may get jumped on, or boxing matches scheduled outside investment cars


/runs :biglol:

 

[Whacko]

:biglol::biglol::biglol:

watchout your comments guise. laptops may get jumped on, or boxing matches scheduled outside investment cars


/runs :biglol:

 

[dvst8]

watchout your comments guise. laptops may get jumped on, or boxing matches scheduled outside investment cars


/runs :biglol:

Nah, dont think so.

Xcede cars get results on the track. :rollsmile:

You dont know what happened outside Investment Cars so maybe better not to comment on that. :thumbs: