E46 ABS & ACS FAILURE

[bmw328]

Dampers are shocks...

:roflol: Lol!!! How blond of me. I never had the time to get them checked. (didn't have car for long, were sorting out one thing after another) mind u that will explain the tail happy back.

 

[bmw328]

Uh oh, I think I should get my DSC and ABS sorted, I have a wheel speed sensor fault.

Sorry to hear about the accident.

Please DO,
Don't go thru the same "offroad" as I did.

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Dampers are shocks...

:roflol: Lol!!! How blond of me. I never had the time to get them checked. (didn't have car for long, were sorting out one thing after another) mind u that will explain the tail happy back.

Hello all,
I arranged & took the car via flat bed tow vehicle to SUPA QUICK, They tested the remaining 3 shock (Dampers) in the car and all test FINE.

Dampers rulled out

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Maybe the sensors failed. :fencelook:

Hello Heven,
Thats a possibility - But that would have to be a freak failure. I hate error failure messeges on the instrument cluster & would have notices a failed ABS or ASC error message. It seems that the system failed when I needed it most. And thats scary :flyfun:

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Well first off, I think you are lucky to be alive right now. Has anyone seen what the steering wheel looks like?? (Let alone the fact that it is detached).

Second, from all of what you are saying I think it's more likely that the details around what happened just before your accident will never be know entirely. If the skid marks are indeed yours, it's highly likely you swerved right.

Third, it doesn't look like the ABS kicked in - The skid marks look consistant - no typical ABS skid marks. However that could be also what it looks like in the picture.

I would agree that it is more likely that the front wheels locked up, than the rears. Purely from circumstantial cases, I am aware that the speedo does "freeze" at the speed of impact.

Glad you are okay, and happy driving!

Hello"applehero",

The steering wheel actually from into 3 section (Outer wheel, centre section with airbag, and cast aluminium section with bolt that is still bolted to the columb. The Steering columb is actually moved right next to the gearleaver and the A pillar is right next to the Ignition (Impact broke key from ignition)

The Right hand sweve is still a mistery (After the accident the car's front wheels were turned left (Even now the wrecks front wheel is pointing left "Steering columb jamed so it can't be moved" I checked"

I do agree with you about the skid marks, ABS also makes skid marks - but they must look like dotted lines. NOT like mine that are solid from start to end.

 

[LPM320]

It is important to note that traction control systems, especially the more basic ones (ASC+T), have their limitations when it comes to actually countering opposing excessive physical forces. As BMW says in the handbook, traction control cannot defy the laws of physics.

That being said, traction control was designed primarily to help avoid accidents like yours, i.e maintaining control under hard braking and swerving. By looking at the skidmarks its easy to tell that the ABS on the front wheels did not even kick in while you broke and swerved, hence your severe loss of control.

I would think the fault could lie with the ABS on one circuit. Why were there no warning lights? Maybe there was an actual physical mechanical fault within the Brake circuit that prevented the ABS from kicking in during high load conditions.

You say that the car was tail happy previously, was this with ASC+T on or off?

 

[netercol]

glad you are alive bud, that was a close call..

judging solely from the pics i have to say your dsc+abs simply did not function.. simple as that.

have you ever tested the functionality of the abs before the accident? what im trying to say is, are you sure the system actually worked, lots of mechanical things that can fail without bringing up errors.. just a thought.
easy to test on a operational car, open piece of road, no trafic to rear-end you, simply stand on the brakes from 50-60km/h , if you do not hear the abs solinoids banging away, you need to find out asap whats wrong..

while dsc/abs will not save your ass in every situation , it should have prevented your accident imho..

 

[bmw328]

It is important to note that traction control systems, especially the more basic ones (ASC+T), have their limitations when it comes to actually countering opposing excessive physical forces. As BMW says in the handbook, traction control cannot defy the laws of physics.

That being said, traction control was designed primarily to help avoid accidents like yours, i.e maintaining control under hard braking and swerving. By looking at the skidmarks its easy to tell that the ABS on the front wheels did not even kick in while you broke and swerved, hence your severe loss of control.

I would think the fault could lie with the ABS on one circuit. Why were there no warning lights? Maybe there was an actual physical mechanical fault within the Brake circuit that prevented the ABS from kicking in during high load conditions.

You say that the car was tail happy previously, was this with ASC+T on or off?

I never switch off the ASC at all, The ASC indicator was off at the cluster meaning the unit was ON. (Checked the funtionality like that)

The Car just drove weird from the begining, I was used too the E36's and thought it might be that but after buying the second E46 (The black one) The Black E46 really drives better than the E46 320i did.

Maybe the Silver 320i was just a bad apple?

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glad you are alive bud, that was a close call..

judging solely from the pics i have to say your dsc+abs simply did not function.. simple as that.

have you ever tested the functionality of the abs before the accident? what im trying to say is, are you sure the system actually worked, lots of mechanical things that can fail without bringing up errors.. just a thought.
easy to test on a operational car, open piece of road, no trafic to rear-end you, simply stand on the brakes from 50-60km/h , if you do not hear the abs solinoids banging away, you need to find out asap whats wrong..

while dsc/abs will not save your ass in every situation , it should have prevented your accident imho..

Thanks for your input, Thats my argument from the begining. The unfortunate problem with the car is that I didn't have it very long and had to replace the engine in the begining, after that I was testing everything electronically. But never tested the abs as mentioned above. (I used to test all my car's ABS system as mentioned - Really works)

 

[Hellas]

Glad you are alive!

Not to comment on your situation, I've taken a mindset to NOT swerve at anything in the road. I've hit more things than I care to remember (including human) and the rule that worked for me is that the road is safe, next to the road not so much. Take the hit and keep control, and vice versa.

Biggest was a duiker and I had R24k from broken bumper and front tupperware on the E46. I were travelling at 110 and just veered to the side, still staying on the tarmac and took the impact. A bumper can be repaired, going offroad at night would have been a bit worse.

Looking at you pics, you are LUCKY to be alive. Good call to try and find some answers to your questions, but I'd say thank BMW for keeping you safe in this one.

 

[edmundp]

Is it not possible for BMW to pull something like an accident record from the car's computer - something like a blackbox feature? I know that it records certain events if the airbags deploy - maybe something similar for abs or dsc?

 

[Leekay]

Sorry to hear about the bad new boet....so often our mechanic insted of telling faults on our toys they clear lights on the cluster more especially if they dont have valid answers..
My personal suspicion is the abs cables could have not well conntected or cut off thus its didt responede to your emergency brakes,i say this as i just lost my motoersport n accident due to that.
Put your car on those hydrolic lifters and go under the car check on each tyre is the cable is 100% connected and healthy..

Hope it helps

 

[bmw328]

Is it not possible for BMW to pull something like an accident record from the car's computer - something like a blackbox feature? I know that it records certain events if the airbags deploy - maybe something similar for abs or dsc?

I actually want to do a full diagnostic on the car using INPA & BMW DIS, and just exclude the Right front ABS sensor from report (Right Front suspension ripped clean from car - Everything: Wheel, shock, stabilizer bar, steering rack end, and strange enough the brand new control arm was ripped out of its inner balljoint - balljoint section still in front subframe) Failed balljoint on the NEW control arm also possible cause for car swerwing sharp right.

Reason that I have not done Diagnostic yet is because the Right A pillar is blocking the ignition & am not able to insert the spare key into the ignition to switch the ignition on again (OLD KEY broke off in the ignition & the metal peace (KEY) was removed afte the car have been switched off and steering locked), We are going to try and use a 8ton hydraulic cylinder to push a pillar back to gain proper acces to the steering colum.

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Sorry to hear about the bad new boet....so often our mechanic insted of telling faults on our toys they clear lights on the cluster more especially if they dont have valid answers..
My personal suspicion is the abs cables could have not well conntected or cut off thus its didt responede to your emergency brakes,i say this as i just lost my motoersport n accident due to that.
Put your car on those hydrolic lifters and go under the car check on each tyre is the cable is 100% connected and healthy..

Hope it helps

Hello Leekay, Sorry to hear about your accident. It is very well possible that there were a hidden problem with the car and that the warning lights was just switched off, I did notice that the car had been in a previous accident before because the front 2 fender, bonnet, and bumper's colour were off a few shades of silver. But I just assumed that's normal for a car being 12 years old to have had a previous accident in its life. I did check the chassis and that was good very good (NO DAMAGE)

I'm going to rebuild the car into another BODY SHELL, (Already bought one) SO EVERY INCH of the car is going to be double and tripple checked.

 

[edmundp]

Cool. Let us know what you find.

Good luck with the rebuild. Nice project!

 

[bmw328]

Hello All,

I managed too do a diagnostic on the ASC&ABS yesterday: Had the following 2 "CODES":

148 CAN DME/DDE, engine torque not adjustable

Error frequency: 182

Vehicle speed 0.00km/h
System activ 0.00 -
Brake lights switch 0.00

________________________________________________

33 Wheels Speed sensor front right trigger signal

Error frequency: 0


Vehicle speed 0.00km/h
System activ 0.00 -
Brake lights switch 0.00

I Later tried a full car diagnostic, But the weird thing is if the tests comes too the ACS module the whole diagnostic system freezes up (DIS and INPA).

I'm not sure if it is because the car is missing a few bits because of the accident (Like the cluster, and lightswitches ... Basically all controls ons driver side)

But 148 bothers me, Does this error mean that the car was not able to take the power away from the wheels even with the ASC system active?

 

[netercol]

148 CAN DME/DDE, engine torque not adjustable

Error frequency: 182

Vehicle speed 0.00km/h
System activ 0.00 -
Brake lights switch 0.00

THIS might have been your problem.. without the CAN communication between ecu and traction control unit/abs, the whole thing is meaningless.. the error frequency indicates that the problem might have been present for some time.. BUT.. checking the errors after the accident might bring up errors caused by the accident.
if you used inpa to read the errors, what was the milage that this error was logged at for the first time?

 

[bmw328]

148 CAN DME/DDE, engine torque not adjustable

Error frequency: 182

Vehicle speed 0.00km/h
System activ 0.00 -
Brake lights switch 0.00

THIS might have been your problem.. without the CAN communication between ecu and traction control unit/abs, the whole thing is meaningless.. the error frequency indicates that the problem might have been present for some time.. BUT.. checking the errors after the accident might bring up errors caused by the accident.
if you used inpa to read the errors, what was the milage that this error was logged at for the first time?

I do know that the second error about the speed sensor should have been caused by the accedent, Because the whole front suspension on the right was ripped out of the car. "Error frequency: 0" indicates its new fault? I also agree that the error 148 should have been around for a while. INPA won't give me any information about the car's identity and milage (The other car works great).
So I'm not sure if its because the Instrument cluster is GONE (Damaged and not able to reconnect), I tried reconnecting the Light Module Unit (Heard that the car's milage is apparently stored in there) NO LUCK.

INPA doesn't give me the milage the errors accoured nor the car's identity as is should. Im confused?

So does error 148 confirm that ABS and ASC did NOT funtion as it should? Why would be the reason that it didn't show the ASC and ABS light on the cluster. (Self test on ignition ON used to work - ASC & ABS used to come on & go OFF after a few seconds)

 

[netercol]

ok, my bad, seems like the ACS ecu does not give such a detailed report as the DME does for instance, listing the km's the error occured at, ect.

i agree the wheel sensor is a new error, the can error has occured at least 182 times before according to the counter..

here is a theory.. it is know that the failure of a ecu on a common communications bus like the older I bus can affect communication between all other ecu's sharing the bus..
maybe the failure was some other control unit on the can bus, which affected comms between the ACS controller and DME when it was critical.. this might not have triggered a dash light since the failure was not in the acs/abs units, only a failure in communication between units.
this is reaching a bit i know, but i cant think of another reason why the dash light was not lit?

maybe see if you can find another controller on the can bus that has stored can bus communications errors? the dme for instance?

edit : found some supporting info

http://www.e38.org/bussystem.pdf

 

[bmw328]

ok, my bad, seems like the ACS ecu does not give such a detailed report as the DME does for instance, listing the km's the error occured at, ect.

i agree the wheel sensor is a new error, the can error has occured at least 182 times before according to the counter..

here is a theory.. it is know that the failure of a ecu on a common communications bus like the older I bus can affect communication between all other ecu's sharing the bus..
maybe the failure was some other control unit on the can bus, which affected comms between the ACS controller and DME when it was critical.. this might not have triggered a dash light since the failure was not in the acs/abs units, only a failure in communication between units.
this is reaching a bit i know, but i cant think of another reason why the dash light was not lit?

maybe see if you can find another controller on the can bus that has stored can bus communications errors? the dme for instance?

edit : found some supporting info

http://www.e38.org/bussystem.pdf

I checked the other diagnostic Report on the engine, this is what I found:

100 Control unit failure

Error frequency: 1
Logistic counter: 1

TCO 53.25 Grad C
VB 6.83 V
Stg-Fehier Low-Byte 0.00 dez
Stg-Fehier High-Byte 16.00 dez
Aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 46.40H

---
---
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Signal not plausible
Error to relevant
Error debounce
Error currently not available
Spordic Error

Errorcode: 64 B8 01 01 87 43 00 10 99 06

131 Timeout CAN-Botschaft INSTR2

Error Frequency: 1
Logistic counter: 40

N_32 0.00 rpm
MAF 0.00 mg/stk
TCO 12.75 Grad C
VB 11.93 V
Aufgetreken vor (rel. BZ)
---
---
---
Timeout reached
---
Error debounce
Error currently available
Stat Error

Errorcode: 83 68 01 28 00 00 51 75 9A D6

There was a s..t load of errors on the engine, so I just used the ones here that caught my eyes!

I was NOT able to get any of the other MODULES to respond, Only ABS and Engine Responded, the rest BOMB out. (DIS & INPA)

 

[netercol]

its really difficult to diagnose after the fact isnt it.. i dont have much more to add except that i would call the cause of your accident abs failure, most probably electronic in nature.
guess it probable that you will never exactly know what caused it..

 

[bmw328]

Hello all,
Hope Someone could please explain or shed some light on this unexpected matter. On the 2Nd of April 2013 I was traveling to work in my 2001 E46 320I, an animal ran in front of me & to try and avoid the accident I slammed on the brakes and swerved to the left.
After waking up in hospital with a skull fracture, broken right tibia & fibula, dislocated hip, 2 broken fingers & a concussion a short term memory loss from hell. I started to puzzle WTF could have gone wrong. (Car did NOT have any ABS or ASC light illuminated on the dash & all systems worked as they should when last diagnostic was performed less than 2 weeks before accident)
According to the pictures I took at the accident scene it would appear that the front wheels locked up and car swerved to the right instead of to the left as where I swerved.
And the reason I say only the front wheels locked up is because the rear wheels drive the speedo gear on the differential (On impact the instrumental cluster got smashed and therefore got stuck on a speed) and because the skid marks on the road is just 2 instead of 4?)
Any comments would be helpful & appreciated.

Hello to all,

Noticed something really odd today after removing covers from the car, I knew that car’s rear left suspension was bent, though it might have been caused by the impact of the car landing back on its wheels after hitting the 2 trees. BUT after closer inspection today: I found that car had a rub mark on the left rear wheel arch followed by a impact just behind that on the rear bumpers side and just above the bumpers side (Under rear light). Impact was enough to cause some serious damage too boot floor (Damage was covered by rear bumper)
What makes is so weird is because there was NOT anything I could have hit with the car’s back at the crash site. Unknown cause that bent lower control arm, break outer CV joint into peaces, rip off all the diff’s mounting and messed up boots floor.

The whole purpose of this thread was to find and prove that electronic devices like ASC and ABS can fail on our car’s and NOT show any warnings on the cluster. Be safe and test your brakes every now and then as described earlier by a fellow forum member. Rather be safe than sorry.

In the early 90’s Mercedes Benz made a TV advert at Chaplens Peak near Cape Town where they ran a old 123 E class of the side of the cliff and the guy survived (Claiming that their cars were the safest in the world. BMW then made there own version TV ad called “Beat the bends” were they drove a E32 7 series on the exact same road were there Mercedes lost control, but BMW finished the journey without crashing. ‘Stating that the safest car, is the car that never have the accident in the 1st place”

Even with the failure of the electronic systems on my car, I was able to walk away from the crash with my life. And I feel that I must explain some of the car’s safety features and how it saved my life:
At impact all door & tube airbags deployed reducing impact of my head into B pillar, The seatbelt tensioners pulled the safety belts tight pushing me back into seat, When the driver side door smashed into my right leg, the driver side seat collapsed and moved about 10CM backwards and downwards. Therefore when the roof caved in if it wasn’t for the car’s safety features I would have been dead today.

This thread will soon be updated to Rebirth of an E46, because I’m in the process of rebuilding the complete car into a replacement shell.

 

[Peter@AEW]

With respect I would propose that you do not.

The total stress on the components becomes something you cannot measure.

 

[bmw328]

With respect I would propose that you do not.

The total stress on the components becomes something you cannot measure.

Luckily this will NOT be my 1st rebuild I’ve done so far:
http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=5109
http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=38587

and I'm defnitly NOT going to salvage suspension and braking system.