zaleonardz
Well-known member
But you guys have got to be careful, some have got a 20 pin and some have got a 16 pin OBD plug..
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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Diagnostic cable from EBAY
- Thread starter Die_Miek
- Start date
andrewbuch
///Member
Oh.. I thought there was OBD 1 & OBD 2...
zaleonardz said:
ffs see this is why i have not bought one yet... why cant they just make it a usb on the car
Beast_Power
Active member
The 20 Pin connector is a round connector on the older models.
OBDII Is the 16 pin connector with the flat head.
Am Getting a converter cable today so I will test to see if GT1 and INPA works on the 540
The supplier said he does not have a big markup on this item so price will stay at R350.00 for the cable. Converter Cable is R150 (But let me first test).
What I want to know is who is going to be modding their own cables and who is going to want modded cables, am just talking to the guy that mods my cables as I do not have the equipment to do such fine work, to hear what he s going to charge for his work.
Will start a list after this post.
OBDII Is the 16 pin connector with the flat head.
Am Getting a converter cable today so I will test to see if GT1 and INPA works on the 540
The supplier said he does not have a big markup on this item so price will stay at R350.00 for the cable. Converter Cable is R150 (But let me first test).
What I want to know is who is going to be modding their own cables and who is going to want modded cables, am just talking to the guy that mods my cables as I do not have the equipment to do such fine work, to hear what he s going to charge for his work.
Will start a list after this post.
zaleonardz
Well-known member
20 pin does not equal OBDI and 16 pin OBDII...
You got quite a couple of OBDII cars with the 20 pin config, my E39 for example, I think it was the year change in 2003ish that they moved to the 16 pin.
You got quite a couple of OBDII cars with the 20 pin config, my E39 for example, I think it was the year change in 2003ish that they moved to the 16 pin.
andrewbuch
///Member
Oh ok.... Now I get it.. Thanks
@P1000 & Beast power..
What does the modification you are talking about entail? and what is it for?
@P1000 & Beast power..
What does the modification you are talking about entail? and what is it for?
i currently need a 20pin but might need a 16pin soonish so im thinking of getting the 16pin with the 20pin adaptor...
will this work well for a 20pin car or should i rather buy separate cables?
will this work well for a 20pin car or should i rather buy separate cables?
zaleonardz
Well-known member
Get the one with the adapter.. lots more flexability
Beast_Power
Active member
There are two mods, one is just a bridge on the two pins and you change the chip software to fool INPA as it then always gives ignition on and battery power, the second mod takes some fine soldering onto the surface mount chip itself (2 Resistors and a transistor) so the obdii connector will pick up true ignition on and battery power. I prefer the latter method as the first method has given some conflicting results in the past where certain things do not work correctly.
@P1000 can you please take a pick of your 20 pin OBDII connector as you even have my BMW Tech confused now. I can not find any mention of a 20pin connector on the BMW except for the round 20 pin connector.
@P1000 can you please take a pick of your 20 pin OBDII connector as you even have my BMW Tech confused now. I can not find any mention of a 20pin connector on the BMW except for the round 20 pin connector.
zaleonardz
Well-known member
Beast, it is the round 20 pin that we are referring to..
As for the ignition/battery indicator, folks who really cares, seriously, you dont need to know that information to diagnose the car.
When I am doing diagnostics, I always do a connection to the cluster first, if you have comms with the cluster, your cable is connected, end of story.
As for the ignition/battery indicator, folks who really cares, seriously, you dont need to know that information to diagnose the car.
When I am doing diagnostics, I always do a connection to the cluster first, if you have comms with the cluster, your cable is connected, end of story.
Beast_Power
Active member
Just got a PM so answering for everyone that do not know.
GT1 is Also Called DIS. It is the Software that BMW use in their workshops to do diagnostics and coding on the cars, It even goes so far as to give schematics and possible solutions to the diagnosed problem.
BTW you are going to need a machine with a least Gig memory to run GT1.
GT1 is Also Called DIS. It is the Software that BMW use in their workshops to do diagnostics and coding on the cars, It even goes so far as to give schematics and possible solutions to the diagnosed problem.
BTW you are going to need a machine with a least Gig memory to run GT1.
ill take the 16 pin with the 20 pin converter with whatever mod is best?
with whatever mod is best?There seems to be a lot of understandable confusion regarding what is what with ADS, OBDI, OBDII, E-OBD etc.
OBD is a set of standards rather than a connector type. The standards did not just change from one to the other over the years, some BMW's can have a little of each depending on when they were made. The whole setup centers around two types of data lines called the K-line and L-line (communication wires). A L line is used to "wake up" an ECU and it is then spoken to on the K line. an L line is uni directional and a K line is Bi directiional, so everything can also be done on a K line alone. Some have one K line and one L line, later OBD has two K lines and one L line even later they had two k lines and no L line. My Merc has multiplexed k lines (lots into one) and one L line. So yes it's frikken confusing and you need to work out what your car has.
there are also diferent protocols (languages) used like ADS or KWP-2000 etc
Pre 95 BMW's have either a 16 pin or 20 pin connector and use a proprietary interface called ADS
Post 95 BMW's have either a 20 pin connector OR a flat 16 pin connector OR Both with one under the dash and one in the engine bay, they use the OBD protocol ISO 9141.1 or ISO 9141.2 spec or some can use ADS as well
Later post 2000 came the E-OBD standard which still uses the 16 pin flat connector under the dash.
Now to make it more complicated some BMW software will not talk to a standard (generic) KL-interface because it looks for two signals. one that the battery power is there and the other that the ignition is switched on, so these are the mods that the guys do.
To take it further the BMW software is designed to communicate via a 16550 UART (Serial port chip) using the RS232 standard and many USB converters do not emulate a 16550 UART properly so the BMW software may or may not recognise these properly.
This is the exact reason that the dealers did not use USB interfaces and continued using RS232. If you are programming your car via USB and the translation software is not perfectly written you can "brick" your ecu. if USB works 100 times perfectly, you will brick your ecu the 101th time. RS232 and a 16550 UART is hardware and not software and it's safer end of story.
A while back I developed a PROPPER interface for OBDII and BMW using the correct MAX232 IC , two properly intefaced K lines and an L line and an ignition and battery signal with the correctly buffered translation voltage levels to provide the correct type of communications and offered it on the forum. I withdrew my offer after some guys claimed the Chinese junk was better.
Anyhoo
The easy way out of this is:
Pre 95 just go buy buy an ADS interface with a 16 or 20 pin depending on what YOUR car has fitted. It will work
Post 95 Just Buy an OBDII interface with a 16 pin flat connector and an extra 20 pin connector adapter. one or the other will work after some mods
I don't know how to say this any other way, but your BMW is not a bloody Ipod you can just plug into a PC. If you plan to do DIY diagnostics correctly and safely start Googling and understanding what you are messing with first and only then will you have a statisfactory experience.
These are proprietary technologies that were never developed for the consumer but rather technicians and it takes a shitload of reading before one get's the hang of it. But if you do get it all working you earn the right to feel very proud of your cleverness.
OBD is a set of standards rather than a connector type. The standards did not just change from one to the other over the years, some BMW's can have a little of each depending on when they were made. The whole setup centers around two types of data lines called the K-line and L-line (communication wires). A L line is used to "wake up" an ECU and it is then spoken to on the K line. an L line is uni directional and a K line is Bi directiional, so everything can also be done on a K line alone. Some have one K line and one L line, later OBD has two K lines and one L line even later they had two k lines and no L line. My Merc has multiplexed k lines (lots into one) and one L line. So yes it's frikken confusing and you need to work out what your car has.
there are also diferent protocols (languages) used like ADS or KWP-2000 etc
Pre 95 BMW's have either a 16 pin or 20 pin connector and use a proprietary interface called ADS
Post 95 BMW's have either a 20 pin connector OR a flat 16 pin connector OR Both with one under the dash and one in the engine bay, they use the OBD protocol ISO 9141.1 or ISO 9141.2 spec or some can use ADS as well
Later post 2000 came the E-OBD standard which still uses the 16 pin flat connector under the dash.
Now to make it more complicated some BMW software will not talk to a standard (generic) KL-interface because it looks for two signals. one that the battery power is there and the other that the ignition is switched on, so these are the mods that the guys do.
To take it further the BMW software is designed to communicate via a 16550 UART (Serial port chip) using the RS232 standard and many USB converters do not emulate a 16550 UART properly so the BMW software may or may not recognise these properly.
This is the exact reason that the dealers did not use USB interfaces and continued using RS232. If you are programming your car via USB and the translation software is not perfectly written you can "brick" your ecu. if USB works 100 times perfectly, you will brick your ecu the 101th time. RS232 and a 16550 UART is hardware and not software and it's safer end of story.
A while back I developed a PROPPER interface for OBDII and BMW using the correct MAX232 IC , two properly intefaced K lines and an L line and an ignition and battery signal with the correctly buffered translation voltage levels to provide the correct type of communications and offered it on the forum. I withdrew my offer after some guys claimed the Chinese junk was better.
Anyhoo
The easy way out of this is:
Pre 95 just go buy buy an ADS interface with a 16 or 20 pin depending on what YOUR car has fitted. It will work
Post 95 Just Buy an OBDII interface with a 16 pin flat connector and an extra 20 pin connector adapter. one or the other will work after some mods
I don't know how to say this any other way, but your BMW is not a bloody Ipod you can just plug into a PC. If you plan to do DIY diagnostics correctly and safely start Googling and understanding what you are messing with first and only then will you have a statisfactory experience.
These are proprietary technologies that were never developed for the consumer but rather technicians and it takes a shitload of reading before one get's the hang of it. But if you do get it all working you earn the right to feel very proud of your cleverness.
rick if you still want to make i will take one from you...
is reading the codes really that dangerous? i thought it would be fine as long as you dont try fiddle with things...
is reading the codes really that dangerous? i thought it would be fine as long as you dont try fiddle with things...
moranor said:
Reading codes is ok and fairly safe, but even erasing them is programming a chip somwhere in the car.
I once deleted my E39's ZCS (central body coding) with carsoft which is not supposed to be able to do that, but it did! A trip to BMW and a bullshit story about jump starting got the very confused looking tech to reprogram it with GT1
The trip there was very scary as I had no working guages, no OBC, no wipers....nothing
zaleonardz
Well-known member
I too fscked up a Golf 5 where I de-programmed the whole car, and had to sit and calculate value strings by adding dec numbers together to get stuff to work again. Thats after I purchased 3 seperate cables for the same car. Took me hours if not days of google research
Basically Ricks point, and being perfectly blunt about it, its not the latest fasion statement to go and buy diagnostics for your car, this is fine logical/methodical approaches. INPA should be fairly safe, and you should not be able to stuff something up, however its a tool which you will need to learn how to use, and it does take a certian amount of skill.
Oh btw, if you see anything with NCS expert, and you do not know what your doing, leave it the fsck alone...... seriously.
NCS Expert is just as freely available and INPA, but you can and prob will fsck up your car... you have been warned. You can also however recode it in any way shape or form that you cannot do with the standard BMW dealer software...
Basically Ricks point, and being perfectly blunt about it, its not the latest fasion statement to go and buy diagnostics for your car, this is fine logical/methodical approaches. INPA should be fairly safe, and you should not be able to stuff something up, however its a tool which you will need to learn how to use, and it does take a certian amount of skill.
Oh btw, if you see anything with NCS expert, and you do not know what your doing, leave it the fsck alone...... seriously.
NCS Expert is just as freely available and INPA, but you can and prob will fsck up your car... you have been warned. You can also however recode it in any way shape or form that you cannot do with the standard BMW dealer software...
Then this is what you want....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-INPA-Ediabas-OBD-ADS-Interface-/160565686008
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-INPA-Ediabas-OBD-ADS-Interface-/160565686008
andrewbuch
///Member
zaleonardz said:
My INPA that I acquired, has NCS Expert with it...
When I run INPA a EDIABAS server opens as well..
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