Dealerships and legal standing

Daevanam

Member
Hi,

So the basic story goes my Mini Cooper S was stolen at the end of November. Insurance paid out and I've been looking for a car ever since. I wanted to stay in the BMW family and started to look at 325ci's and 325i's (E46).

After searching for awhile I found a relatively low mileage 325i in Alpine White. I phoned the person who placed the advert and asked if I could come see the car. When I phoned, I spoke to a elderly German lady who gave me an address of where the car was. When I arrived I found out it was a dealership. I spoke to the owner of the dealership who assured me he was selling it on behalf of his friend, the elderly German lady.

I drove the car and had it checked out by my friendly mechanic. He gave me a list of things that were incorrect on the car and told me to see if they would fix said things and that would perhaps make the car a viable prospect. They seemed relatively accommodating with regards to my concerns and assured me they would fix it.

I waited a week and was called up as all the problems had been fixed. I went through, drove the car, and expressed that there were still issues. They went away and 'fixed' these issues again. I took my mother through to the dealership to see the car. She test drove it and was elated with the car. I still had my concerns.

Last week Friday, my mother surprised me with the car after work saying she had paid for it. Naturally I was extremely shocked. She was just trying to surprise and she felt she was doing something right. I test drove the car on the Friday and found some HUGE issues that they still hadn't fixed. I took it back to the dealership straight away. They said they'd have the problems fixed by Tuesday of this week.

Now that we've already paid for the car we have almost no leg to stand on. As it's a huge sum of money that was paid over, myself and my mother are horribly worried now. The car was far worse when I drove it on friday then it had ever been. I took all the details I could before handing it back to the dealership to see if i could find some sort of legal standing in this regard.

Today I ran the registration and ownership details of the car and found it was never owned by a little old lady and the car was owned by a second hand dealer for the past 3 years.

I really feel like we're in serious trouble and i was wondering if any of you Fanatics had some advice for us.

Thanks in advance.
 

Rooi_Willie

///Member
The consumer protection act is on your side.

You have 6 months in which to demand repairs, replacement or refund.

Threaten them with the cpa :thumbs:
 

Philip Foglar

///Member
+1 for all the above! The fact that you asked them to sort out various issues and had a mechanical take a look at it beforehand - as far as I am concerned they are the ones that don't have a leg to stand on! :thumbs:
 

drugekull

New member
Note for future

Don't ever get the dealer that you bying the car from to repair anything unless its something really minor

Get a quote to get the stuff fixed yourself and negotiate with the dealer to drop the price to cover it then you know the job is done right and you can take it back to your Machanic if something goes wrong

I know this does not help you now but the CPA should give you some releaf if it goes wrong. Please keep all documentation of what happens you will need it later.
 

Daevanam

Member
Thanks a lot guys!

So should I demand receipts for all the 'repairs'?

If the law is on my side to such a degree, do you think it's wise that I just demand my money back and continue my search. Can I do this?

Thanks once again.

Sorry for the double post.

Okay, I've just got a copy of the receipt my mother was given upon purchase of the car.

They said on the front 'Sold on behalf of *****' which we know to be a lie. Unless they're the owners of the 2nd hand dealership that it's registered at.

On the back it says the conditions of sale which say the sale is binding upon me/us and is not subject to cancellation or withdrawal by me/us. They also state the repairs that were commissioned are now on my account.

Any ideas on this now?
 

Daevanam

Member
It's a dealership in Cape Town called Alastair Craig Motors and the other is Kulu Motors as far as we've gathered.

 

Rooi_Willie

///Member
Dude, no form of terms and conditions can override the law. Period. It does not matter what you sign, the law governs not some piece of paper someone made up.

Got this off the net :

Consumer Protection Act: Useful Information

Consumer complaints, Complaint procedures, Useful Consumer Contact Details:

Consumer Complaints:

Complaints may be made by any consumer, or by an interested person on behalf of a consumer. Public interest cases may be brought by NGO’s on behalf of consumers. The Act provides for Special legal remedies such as:
•Class actions,
•Damages,
•Discrimination complaints may be brought to both the Equality Court and the National Consumer Commission for referral to the Equality Court.

Processes:
•Consumers are encouraged to go to the supplier as their first port of call to resolve the dispute.
•If there is no resolution, refer the matter to a Dispute Resolution Agent, who will attempt to resolve the matter through an Alternative Dispute Resolution process.
•Then referral by the NCC of minor matters to Provincial Office who will escalate the matter to Provincial Consumer Courts.
•Then the Commission/ Tribunal as the last resolution to individual complaints.

The National Consumer Commission will investigate complaints, and refer cases to the Consumer Tribunal. The Consumer Tribunal will have authority to declare the act contravened, order changes in practice, impose administrative fines and interdict future prohibited practices.

WHERE TO COMPLAIN:

The Consumer Protection Act aims to promote consumer activism, by making provision for the accreditation of consumer groups tasked with lodging complaints on behalf of consumers, as well as making available support for activities, such as consumer advice, education, publications, research and alternative dispute resolution through mediation or conciliation.

As such, the Act gives rise to the establishment of the National Consumer Commission, a body assigned to investigate consumer complaints , as well as the National Consumer Tribunal, the latter of which was created by the National Credit Act in September 2006, and is responsible for the adjudication of violations and transgressions of the National Credit Act and the Consumer Protection Act.

Consumer Help Line, via
•the dti Customer Contact Centre: 0861 843 384
•the dti Office of Consumer Protection (OCP) : (012) 394 1436 / 1558 /1076
•E-mail: [email protected] This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
•the dti Website: www.thedti.gov.za
•National Consumer Tribunal (NCT): (012) 663 5615
•NCT E-mail: [email protected] This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
•NCT Website: www.thenct.org.za

Other Useful Contact Details in the Consumer Realm:

Government Bodies
Consumer Commission
0861 843 384

Public Protector
Tel: 012 366 7000
Fax: 012 262 3473
Toll free: 0800 112 040

Department of Trade and Industry (DTI)
Tel: 012 394 9500
Call share: 0861 843 384

Tribunal
Tel: 012 663 5615
Fax: 012 663 5693

Provincial Consumer Protection Offices

Gauteng
011 355 8006
011 355 8019

Western Cape
0800 007 081
021 483 5872

Eastern Cape
040 609 3050
040 609 3201

Free State
051 400 4852
051 400 9610

Kwazulu Natal
031 310 5300
031 310 5416

Limpopo
015 293 8300
015 291 1336

North West
018 387 7872
018 392 5660

Northern Cape
053 839 4000
053 831 3669

Consumer NGO’s

South African National Consumer Union
Tel: 012 428 7122
Fax: 0866 728585

National Consumer Forum
Tel: 012 428 7071
Fax: 012 428 7284/5019

National Black Consumer Union
Tel: 011 982 2585

Industry Bodies

Advertising

Advertising Standards Authority (ASA)
Tel: 011 781 2006
Fax: 011 781 1616

Auctions

SA Institute of Auctioneers
Tel: 082 555 3458

Banking

Ombudsman for Banking Services
Tel: 011 838 0035
Share call: 0860 800 900

Banking Association
Tel: 011 645 6700
Fax: 011 645 6800

Competition Commission
Tel: 012 394 3200


Dental Ombudsman
Tel: 086 011 3334

SA Dental Association
Tel: 011 484 5288

Direct Marketing Association
Tel: 011 781 8019
Fax: 0866 260 758

Direct Selling Association
Tel: 011 726 5300
Fax: 011 482 2000

Electrical Contractors Association SA
Tel: 011 392 0000
Fax: 011 974 9402

National Electricity Regulator
Tel: 012 401 4600
Fax: 012 401 4700

Escom Call Centres
Central region: Braamfontein
Eastern region: Westville
Southern region: East London
North Eastern region: Witbank
North Western region: Bloemfontein
Northern region
Western region: Cape Town

Tel: 0860 037 566
Tel: 0860 204 560
Tel: 0860 140 014 / 043 703 5270
Tel: 0860 001 414 / 013 693 5000
Tel: 0860 037 566
Tel: 0860 100 304
Tel: 021 915 3203

Estate Agency Affairs Board
Tel: 011 731 5600
Fax: 011 880 9725 / 9831

Franchise Association SA
Tel: 011 615 0359
Fax: 011 615 3679

Furniture Traders Association
Tel: 011 789 6770
Fax: 086 656 8872

Kitchen Specialists Association
Gauteng and Cape Town
Kwazulu Natal

Tel: 0860 109 290
Tel: 0865 505 6296

National Home Builders Registration Council
Tel: 011 317 0010
Fax: 011 317 0141

Housing Consumer Protection Trust
Tel: 011 333 8501
Fax: 011 333 1050

Hospital Complaints
The Hospital Association SA
Tel: 011 478 0156
Fax: 011 478 0410

Council of Medical Schemes
Tel: 012 431 0500
Fax: 012 431 0608

South African Medical Association
Tel: 012 481 2000
Fax: 012 481 2100

South African Pharmacy Council
Tel: 012 319 8500
Fax: 012 321 1492

South African Optometric Association
Tel: 011 805 4517
Fax: 011 805 3882

Health Professional Council of SA
Tel: 012 338 9300
Fax: 012 328 5120

Law Society of SA
Tel: 012 366 8800
Fax: 012 362 0969

Motor Industry Ombudsman
Tel: 012 841 2945
Fax: 012 841 2842

Retail Motor Industry Organisation

Timeshare Institute of SA
Tel: 021 914 9693
Fax: 021 914 5202

Retailers Association
Tel: 011 726 5300

SA Bureau of Standards
Tel: 012 428 7911/6006
Fax: 012 344 1568

SA Tourism
Tel: 011 895 3001
Cell: 083 123 6789

Maybe start by giving the motor industry ombudsman a call and explaining to them what happened. They should be taking this up on your behalf.

Sorry for the looong post, just thought that there's a lot of usefull info here :fencelook:
 

Caddy101

Active member
CPA THOSE MOTHERFATHERS!!!

they don't stand a chance mate, not at all. especially because after you pointed out the issues they said they would fix them. had they disputed the fact that the car has faults, then they would have a slight chance, but they acknowledged the faults and agreed to fix them.
 

Inspector_Gadget

New member
Caddy101 said:
CPA THOSE MOTHERFATHERS!!!

they don't stand a chance mate, not at all. especially because after you pointed out the issues they said they would fix them. had they disputed the fact that the car has faults, then they would have a slight chance, but they acknowledged the faults and agreed to fix them.

Everything has to be agreed to in written agreement.
If there are defects present that you had been made aware of any yet decided to proceed with the purchase, those defects are excluded from the dealers responsibility. You took the car at the price offered with the defects known.

That is one approach they can take.

Next is, consignement cars are excluded from the cover of the CPA.
They have to prove this was the case.

I can sell a BMW 120i 2004 with 200 000 km's with A LIST OF FAULTS:

EG:
  • Air Bag Light on
  • Bonnet Shocks Broken
  • Bearing Noisy
  • Central Locking not working
  • Water Leak

Now you are aware of these faults, you agree to purchase the car for a sum well below indicated Trade value. I then have no obligation to repair the faults. If you want the car perfect then I would account for the total cost to recon the car and sell it to you for a much higher price.

If I sold you a car and did not disclose the faults you could have recourse through the CPA or MIO.

People, willing buyer, willing seller still applies no matter the CPA.
Just a few thoughts for you...

As for your problem, I think Fanatics should all call him and warn him to sort you out or face a couple hundred angry BMW Fanatics!!!
 

Daevanam

Member
And this is why I love this community. Everyone is so willing to help.

Some very good news today.

After putting some serious pressure on them loads of documents were magically found and many of the issues I had were cleared up.

Full service history from BMW and Kulu Motors were provided.
Slips for all the work I requested have been provided.
Written assurances from both the owner and the dealership with regards to warranties and registration.
Registration papers were given over too.

Took the car for a drive and all the issues seemed to have been cleared up. Taking it up to my friendly mechanic in a bit to get the final all clear from him.

Hopefully i'll be the owner of a Alpine white 325i soon :)

Thanks once again guys.
 

Inspector_Gadget

New member
Daevanam said:
And this is why I love this community. Everyone is so willing to help.

Some very good news today.

After putting some serious pressure on them loads of documents were magically found and many of the issues I had were cleared up.

Full service history from BMW and Kulu Motors were provided.
Slips for all the work I requested have been provided.
Written assurances from both the owner and the dealership with regards to warranties and registration.
Registration papers were given over too.

Took the car for a drive and all the issues seemed to have been cleared up. Taking it up to my friendly mechanic in a bit to get the final all clear from him.

Hopefully i'll be the owner of a Alpine white 325i soon :)

Thanks once again guys.

You are so very welcome, enjoy your wheels...:)
 
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