Chris Harris: M135i and A45 AMG

[Mo63]

:inlove: A45 FTW.....

I personally think the A45 is the better car all that power from just a 2.0lt Turbo raise:

I want one

 

[Rommies]

A45 AMG is by no doubt awesome!

but the price tag...eish!

 

[outlaw335]

Too much Merc loving going on on this forum :fencelook:

 

[Mo63]

Too much Merc loving going on on this forum :fencelook:

fft::grin:

 

[hotchocolate]

Yes its fast and new and every other + there is but I think it lacks soul which on the other had the M135i has.

Its almost like the MP4-12C. It beats the Ferrari 458 in every department yet everyone says the Ferrari is a better car (Top Gear).

Is it just me or does the styling at the rear make it look like its been kicked in the bollocks really hard?

 

[White_Mercury]

Yeah i hear ya, but the M135i looks like its been kicked all over. i still love the 135i coupe much much much more in the looks department.

 

[CocoPops]

A45 is Lovely! :inlove:

But I'd take a Boxster for that kinda cash! (Here the Boxster is around R650k)

Err the A45 is R555k is SA and kills a Boxter in every performance and practical way imaginable. For R100 000 less. I don't understand why.

I don't know how they made it cheaper in SA than in Europe, must be a miracle.

Only mentioned it, coz its the same price in UK to the A45...

Def gets killed in performance.. But I don't care! A Hatch, is a hatch.

Mid Engine'd, Rear Wheel Drive, NA Flat 6! Yes Please!
:inlove:

Aahh ok well then i see your point coz that new boxter is gorgeous, and its still a Porsche, but in SA, 100k more doesn't make sense if it isn't faster.

There is absolutely no way that I can agree with this statement. At all.

The Porsche is one - a Porsche. It has heritage that 1000 000kw wont give the little amg. Secondly it is probably on of the best drivers cars in the world today. Acclaimed by some to be the best Porsche available. It doesnt mean its the fastest, it means its the most precise machine available. you can pinpoint that car with accuracy the merc will never achieve. The merc may be faster in the straight, but the Boxster will trounce the AMG in every other performance aspect. The most important being, the driver feel. What does it deliver to you as a driver. The a45 is a well accomplished car, but if one follows the motoring world, one understand what makes these cars great (albeit slower in some aspects) and why they are the most acclaimed cars money can buy.

Another aspect for me is the comment on the 1M - again, the exact same argument applies as above, it may be faster in a straight, but its the feeling you get from that car that is second to none. It will wipe the floor with the amg as a drivers car - that was probably the best performance car launched during its time, and remains unsurpassed. remember faster is not always better, something that the //M division has remained true to in all its time.

Based on the feedback on the M135i, it for me remains the better car, as it is only 30% M, and 70% BMW (M performance), yet is standing up to a full blown amg car? wow. wow. wow.

I have no doubt in my mind that the next //M2 will wipe this segment clean, if the M135i is already able to hold candle to this car. it was only 0.2 seconds faster around this track? not that impressive.

To those who claim why is BMW using a 3.0 Six cylinder motor when competitors use 2.0T: 1. It is heritage BMW has in the straight six that makes that motor size the preferred choice. 2. it is a much smoother motor, and is capable of a LOT when tuned.3. BMW have a multi award winning 2.0t (n20) that delivers what no other 2.0t motor delivers in the world (engine of the year).

BMW Power.

 

[Josh-ZN]

I have no doubt in my mind that the next //M2 will wipe this segment clean, if the M135i is already able to hold candle to this car. it was only 0.2 seconds faster around this track? not that impressive.

I agree with most of what you say.

however, the last 1M didnt wipe the segment clean. it was limited over-priced and not as fast as its competitors in a straight line. the AMG was 0.2 seconds faster than the M135i around the track even though it had a big tyre disadvantage.

what i like about the AMG is that its awd system is light years ahead of Audi's haldex. it seems well balanced around the bends Another thing I like is that its more suited to the average everyday petrolhead. oversteer is great for very capable drivers when they are on the track. get it wrong on the road and you end up in the ditch. the AMG is a much better car imo. I love the M135i too, but Mercedes have done something special here, so credit where its due. The interior for me is spectacular (subjective). the new 1M or 2M or M2 or whatever will struggle to overpower this Merc. As Chris Harris said, the M3 and C63 AMG would never be able to keep up with the A45 AMG on challenging roads (like we have in abundance in SA).

Mercedes has my attention this time. :thumbs:

 

[sanesh21]

26psi Full AMG car vs 10psi 30% M car.
Case closed

 

[Josh-ZN]

26psi Full AMG car vs 10psi 30% M car.
Case closed

i dont get in to those discussions. 6.2ltr V8 vs 4ltr V8 vs 3 ltr 6 cylinder bi turbo vs 2 ltr single turbo 4 cylinder vs awd vs rwd vs fwd and so on and so forth.

i look at what car does it for me.

A45 AMG :inlove:

 

[CocoPops]

I have no doubt in my mind that the next //M2 will wipe this segment clean, if the M135i is already able to hold candle to this car. it was only 0.2 seconds faster around this track? not that impressive.

I agree with most of what you say.

however, the last 1M didnt wipe the segment clean. it was limited over-priced and not as fast as its competitors in a straight line. the AMG was 0.2 seconds faster than the M135i around the track even though it had a big tyre disadvantage.

what i like about the AMG is that its awd system is light years ahead of Audi's haldex. it seems well balanced around the bends Another thing I like is that its more suited to the average everyday petrolhead. oversteer is great for very capable drivers when they are on the track. get it wrong on the road and you end up in the ditch. the AMG is a much better car imo. I love the M135i too, but Mercedes have done something special here, so credit where its due. The interior for me is spectacular (subjective). the new 1M or 2M or M2 or whatever will struggle to overpower this Merc. As Chris Harris said, the M3 and C63 AMG would never be able to keep up with the A45 AMG on challenging roads (like we have in abundance in SA).

Mercedes has my attention this time. :thumbs:

Thanks mann, always good to have a good discussion.

The 1M was leap and bounds ahead of competition, from my post above, I said it wasnt the fastest in a straight line, but as a drivers car, nothing touched it. It is much faster on track, and remains the ultimate drivers machine, something the competitotrs could not touch it with. It cleaned the floor in almost every review it has been in or comparison test.

The tyre difference mentioned is not that big, we are talking about Michies supersports vs Michi Pilot sport 3 ( a really good tyre), so its not going to make years difference, especially on an awd car, on 'cup' tyres mentioned by Chris is Semi Slicks, michelin CUP tyres.

The M3 may not be able to keep up, agreed, however thats exactly my point, the enjoyment the M3 will deliver, will surpass any so called speed advantage, as mentioned previously, driver enjoyment is key to a great performance car, and a good performance car. the a45 is a good performance car.

BMW Power.

 

[Josh-ZN]

i agree with you as far as driver enjoyment goes. bmw sets the standard and yes, the 1M was way ahead of anything in its class to the skilled driver.

i, sadly, am not one of those skilled drivers like Chris Harris and even if I was I wouldnt take my pride and joy on to a track. if i did have his skill i doubt i would drive it around corners like he was in the video. my tyres would wear too quickly and it would look irresponsible to other drivers on the road.

so my point is that the A45 AMG is better suited to a petrolhead like myself. one with less driving skill than those drifters out there, and maybe one that enjoys to drive fast, safe and less unruly than the younger more skilled drivers :fencelook:

i believe there is a market for both and i think the A45 aims itself at a different market to the 1M for example. I am an awd fan. i enjoy my robot to robot dashes and hitting the bends at speed. I dont enjoy doing very high speeds mainly bcos i dont fancy getting caught. i also enjoy the sure footing in the wet of awd. match all that to an awesome performance package in the A45 AMG and we have a winner for drivers like myself.

I would take the M135i over the RS3 though. I owned the S3 and my 135i has a much better feel to it. but as Chris Harris noted, the A45 AMG has brilliant feel and the awd system is great. He also couldnt hide his disappointment when going from the A45 to the 135. Chris Harris is a true skilled driver and i am certain he would pick the merc every single day of the week. The A45 AMG for me is the much better car no matter which way I look at it and I am BMW biased.

Would I take the A45 AMG over the 1M. Yes :sorry:

 

[White_Mercury]

I have no doubt in my mind that the next //M2 will wipe this segment clean, if the M135i is already able to hold candle to this car. it was only 0.2 seconds faster around this track? not that impressive.

I agree with most of what you say.

however, the last 1M didnt wipe the segment clean. it was limited over-priced and not as fast as its competitors in a straight line. the AMG was 0.2 seconds faster than the M135i around the track even though it had a big tyre disadvantage.

what i like about the AMG is that its awd system is light years ahead of Audi's haldex. it seems well balanced around the bends Another thing I like is that its more suited to the average everyday petrolhead. oversteer is great for very capable drivers when they are on the track. get it wrong on the road and you end up in the ditch. the AMG is a much better car imo. I love the M135i too, but Mercedes have done something special here, so credit where its due. The interior for me is spectacular (subjective). the new 1M or 2M or M2 or whatever will struggle to overpower this Merc. As Chris Harris said, the M3 and C63 AMG would never be able to keep up with the A45 AMG on challenging roads (like we have in abundance in SA).

Mercedes has my attention this time. :thumbs:

Thanks mann, always good to have a good discussion.

The 1M was leap and bounds ahead of competition, from my post above, I said it wasnt the fastest in a straight line, but as a drivers car, nothing touched it. It is much faster on track, and remains the ultimate drivers machine, something the competitotrs could not touch it with. It cleaned the floor in almost every review it has been in or comparison test.

The tyre difference mentioned is not that big, we are talking about Michies supersports vs Michi Pilot sport 3 ( a really good tyre), so its not going to make years difference, especially on an awd car, on 'cup' tyres mentioned by Chris is Semi Slicks, michelin CUP tyres.

The M3 may not be able to keep up, agreed, however thats exactly my point, the enjoyment the M3 will deliver, will surpass any so called speed advantage, as mentioned previously, driver enjoyment is key to a great performance car, and a good performance car. the a45 is a good performance car.

BMW Power.

Coco you really lack the ability to be unbiased and every single time its Bmw or nothing . The tyres are a MASSIVE difference if you have ever been serious about racing you'd know that around a track it can make huge differences in lap times. As for the 1M to kill everything with 4 wheels ... Please. The A45 and even the Renault Meganne RS already beat it around the most demanding "drivers car heaven" in the world :the green hell.
I love M cars and my family have owned several which i dearly love, and i agree whole heartedly that the RWD M cars are beyond special, but to deny that Merc has made something special and to say that the M135i is only 30%M is being idiotic, it needs a LSD and 25kw thats it. Your nitpicking, even Chris Harris would rather have the A45 if money wasn't an option.
I dont understand this hatred of AMG, put two cars next to one another, and compare , each one has strong points and weak points, overall winner this time the Merc.
Fuel economy - merc win
Comfort - bmw win
Faster straight line -merc win
Faster Track car - merc win
Gearbox - Bmw win
Engine Sound- draw (different strokes)
Engine power - merc win
Looks - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me personally the merc is better looking.
Just my 2c



I can understand that any BMW fanatic would badmouth it.

 

[CocoPops]

I have no doubt in my mind that the next //M2 will wipe this segment clean, if the M135i is already able to hold candle to this car. it was only 0.2 seconds faster around this track? not that impressive.

I agree with most of what you say.

however, the last 1M didnt wipe the segment clean. it was limited over-priced and not as fast as its competitors in a straight line. the AMG was 0.2 seconds faster than the M135i around the track even though it had a big tyre disadvantage.

what i like about the AMG is that its awd system is light years ahead of Audi's haldex. it seems well balanced around the bends Another thing I like is that its more suited to the average everyday petrolhead. oversteer is great for very capable drivers when they are on the track. get it wrong on the road and you end up in the ditch. the AMG is a much better car imo. I love the M135i too, but Mercedes have done something special here, so credit where its due. The interior for me is spectacular (subjective). the new 1M or 2M or M2 or whatever will struggle to overpower this Merc. As Chris Harris said, the M3 and C63 AMG would never be able to keep up with the A45 AMG on challenging roads (like we have in abundance in SA).

Mercedes has my attention this time. :thumbs:

Thanks mann, always good to have a good discussion.

The 1M was leap and bounds ahead of competition, from my post above, I said it wasnt the fastest in a straight line, but as a drivers car, nothing touched it. It is much faster on track, and remains the ultimate drivers machine, something the competitotrs could not touch it with. It cleaned the floor in almost every review it has been in or comparison test.

The tyre difference mentioned is not that big, we are talking about Michies supersports vs Michi Pilot sport 3 ( a really good tyre), so its not going to make years difference, especially on an awd car, on 'cup' tyres mentioned by Chris is Semi Slicks, michelin CUP tyres.

The M3 may not be able to keep up, agreed, however thats exactly my point, the enjoyment the M3 will deliver, will surpass any so called speed advantage, as mentioned previously, driver enjoyment is key to a great performance car, and a good performance car. the a45 is a good performance car.

BMW Power.

Coco you really lack the ability to be unbiased and every single time its Bmw or nothing . The tyres are a MASSIVE difference if you have ever been serious about racing you'd know that around a track it can make huge differences in lap times. As for the 1M to kill everything with 4 wheels ... Please. The A45 and even the Renault Meganne RS already beat it around the most demanding "drivers car heaven" in the world :the green hell.
I love M cars and my family have owned several which i dearly love, and i agree whole heartedly that the RWD M cars are beyond special, but to deny that Merc has made something special and to say that the M135i is only 30%M is being idiotic, it needs a LSD and 25kw thats it. Your nitpicking, even Chris Harris would rather have the A45 if money wasn't an option.
I dont understand this hatred of AMG, put two cars next to one another, and compare , each one has strong points and weak points, overall winner this time the Merc.
Fuel economy - merc win
Comfort - bmw win
Faster straight line -merc win
Faster Track car - merc win
Gearbox - Bmw win
Engine Sound- draw (different strokes)
Engine power - merc win
Looks - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me personally the merc is better looking.
Just my 2c



I can understand that any BMW fanatic would badmouth it.

You say I lack the ability to be unbiased, however everything I have stated is fact.

I do track days and know the effect of tyres, however the difference between those 2 tyres is not that dramatic.

and to Quote BMW:
"An M vehicle has about 80% changed or completely newly developed parts as compared to its equivalent basic model, while the M Performance Automobiles are at around 30%." Please do not call me idiotic again with no basis for it.

I dont have a hatred to amg, I have an ability to judge a performance car based on what it should be.

The amg is the winner in this case, I agree, but its competing with a 30% M Developed car (so how great an achievement is it really?). When the full on M version arrives, it will be game over. Its like a featherweight and heavyweight in the ring, and the featherweight takes the fight to the final round and loses. Thats what has happened in this case.

If money wasnt an option, Chriss Harris would have a GT3, as it stands the M135i is punching above its class.

RS Trophy vs 1M:
Nordschleife 8:07.97 8:15.00
Hockenheim Short 1:16.40 1:14.10
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (post 06/2008) 1:26.10 1:25.90
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:27.30 1:26.50

Now funny how the RS is only faster on the track where Renault did the time themselves, coincidence? I dont think so.

I know you have ordered one, its not personal, so dont take it so. I dont hate amg's, i understand why M Cars are better, and it is the most powerful letter in the automobile world.

BMW Power.

 

[Josh-ZN]

i agree. there is no need to get personal. i enjoy a good discussion.

bmw have the benefit of seeing what they are up against before releasing their next model. this is how the car industry goes. but they have their work cut out for them to match this release from merc.

i dont believe the m135i is punching above its weight. i think its outclassed by some margin in this case. yes i know its 0.2 seconds, but different tracks will have different results and to be honest, these are road cars not track cars so that doesn't mean a huge amount to me. no-one should drive a car on the road like Chris Harris drives the m135i in the test. but the A45 AMG, well you could drive like that on the road :fencelook: atm the merc is the king of hatches, the m135i a bit behind in 2nd second and then the rest.

having not driven either i find that i am laughing at myself. its all based on what i have seen and read and my driving experience with a tuned 135i and S3, so :sorry: its just my opinion and not based on any real world driving experience in either car :rollsmile:

 

[CocoPops]

i agree. there is no need to get personal. i enjoy a good discussion.

bmw have the benefit of seeing what they are up against before releasing their next model. this is how the car industry goes. but they have their work cut out for them to match this release from merc.

i dont believe the m135i is punching above its weight. i think its outclassed by some margin in this case. yes i know its 0.2 seconds, but different tracks will have different results and to be honest, these are road cars not track cars so that doesn't mean a huge amount to me. no-one should drive a car on the road like Chris Harris drives the m135i in the test. but the A45 AMG, well you could drive like that on the road :fencelook: atm the merc is the king of hatches, the m135i a bit behind in 2nd second and then the rest.

having not driven either i find that i am laughing at myself. its all based on what i have seen and read and my driving experience with a tuned 135i and S3, so :sorry: its just my opinion and not based on any real world driving experience in either car :rollsmile:

Thats fair.. lol.. can agree with that

:thumbs:

 

[White_Mercury]

Lets agree to disagree, yes when the new M comes out it should be fantastic and lets not take a trophy for a car thats not even revealed yet. Err did you not hear chris say if he had the money which car he would take out of the 2 reviewed? I didn't see a GT3 in the test. If you look at whats currently on sale,M135i ,S3 including the 1M they all will come up short on a track, where its not about rear end sliding or oversteer.
The M135i compared to the 1M is much closer performance wise than a 70% difference. Thats like saying a M135i is a polo vivo and 1M is a golf R which it isn't. Go see what a M135i does against a 1M, there is not that much in it.