Car petrol problem

[Pho3niX90]

SO yesterday, the 330 left me AGAIN without warning without fuel on the side of the road, this is the second time.

First time I had 570 KM on the trip meter, 120KM left on range, and needle was on the 1 stripe on gauge. Towed it because I didn't know it was fuel, next morning when I was trying to find the problem, the needle was now at totally empty

Yesterday, samething, trip meter was 430KM, 140KM on range, same needle position, and average consumption 10.2L/100KM


What could be causing this?? The after the first time I ran diagnostics and there was an error of tank sensor 1 if not mistaking, after the first time I made it a rule to not go over 500KM a tank before refilling, but seems it must be 400 now :nonono:

Any suggestions

 

[Dr Evil]

if you do a search you'll find it's a common thing on e46s, normally the fuel level sensor in the tank has packed up.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gizmo]

I too have experienced it with the 330i, I took the fuel level sensor out and stripped it, cleaned it and refitted it. Haven't had shit since but my fiance refuses to drive the car with less than half a tank because she is scared it will run out on her. As Dr Evil said, its a common e46 problem.

 

[Pho3niX90]

But even if it gets stuck, the trip meter should at least be close to 600KM? It's a 63L Tank and average of 10.2L/100KM gives you 617.65KM? So it was shy with +- 180KM when it died?? Suggesting there was about 18L left in the tank?

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Also, when I filled it up it took 47.1L. SOO, 63-47.1 = 15.9

So am I missing something?

 

[_Syk3_]

Your fuel pumps bust.

Had the same problem on my 330i

 

[Pho3niX90]

Your fuel pumps bust.

Had the same problem on my 330i

Hmm, if it's busted then the car should start? I have read some threads about the fuel pump, but once I fill the car up she starts again??

 

[_Syk3_]

Correct... mine started stalling and not starting at 1/4 quarter tank left and progressively got worst until it started stalling and refusing to start at 3/4 tank full.

Started loosing power on up hills etc.

Had the fuel pump replaced and it sorted everything.

 

[Pho3niX90]

Correct... mine started stalling and not starting at 1/4 quarter tank left and progressively got worst until it started stalling and refusing to start at 3/4 tank full.

Started loosing power on up hills etc.

Had the fuel pump replaced and it sorted everything.

Thanks man, is there a way to test this? And where did you buy yours from and at what price?

 

[_Syk3_]

My pump got progressively worst so I guess that was my test lol

Had mine done through Ross Duncan in Midrand for about R2500 - R3000 with labour.

His Numbers
(011) 8053219

 

[Philip Foglar]

Over a year ago my Wife and I were driving home from a day out and the remaining range with the reserve light was on at 100km, and being fairly close to home already we pressed on and went home. Later my Wife went to go and fill the car and when she arrived at the filling station with 45km left, it was stuttering about to die from running out of fuel (not good). Sure enough, when she filled the tank it literally took 300ml less than the tank capacity!

So chances are it's this level sensor which is a common problem, unless of course you are stranded but have fuel in the tank...

 

[Pho3niX90]

Over a year ago my Wife and I were driving home from a day out and the remaining range with the reserve light was on at 100km, and being fairly close to home already we pressed on and went home. Later my Wife went to go and fill the car and when she arrived at the filling station with 45km left, it was stuttering about to die from running out of fuel (not good). Sure enough, when she filled the tank it literally took 300ml less than the tank capacity!

So chances are it's this level sensor which is a common problem, unless of course you are stranded but have fuel in the tank...

The problem is I had more than 14+ liters in the tank left. The light didn't even come on, but think I will replace the fuel pump and see what happens.

Could the fuel filter also cause this? Or maybe a blockage in the fuel pipes?

 

[_Syk3_]

If its the sensor would the car stroll drive if there is sufficient fuel?

 

[Philip Foglar]

Seems more likely to be a blockage or a pump issue then. Maybe start by replacing the fuel filter underneath the car (think it's around the gearbox area running back), then if that doesn't help most likely the pump/regulator?? Could maybe have that tested for pressure and bleed test...

 

[rick540]

The old E34's are even more psycho, all of them.

You get in in the morning to go to work, it tells you 1/4 tank and 250Km, five km later you are on reserve with 15km and usually stuck in traffic.

You fill them up and the OBC says you can go 800Km, every time, yet I have never once got more than 450Km.

Once got 200km on a reserve light, so they really are hit and miss.

 

[craigNbmw729]

How 'bout just replacing your fuel pump. It might get all your problem fixed. In case you need one check this out here

 

[jconradie]

I am having the same issue. Car starts acting like there is no fuel at about 1/4 tank.

Upon further investigation there is indeed fuel in the tank (opened up the tank from under the rear seats)

Incase you were not aware, the tank has an "n" shape, this is so that it can go over the prop shaft under the car. Therefore your tank theoretically has 2 side and 2 level sensors. There is a pipe which links the 2 sides called a "suction jet pump", stupid name, but this is the name given by BMW.

Either the "jet pump" has come loose or the following is the explanation....

So this is how it all works.
Fuel is pumped from the tank through the fuel filter, which if I’m not mistaken has the pressure regulator built in. When going through the regulator the correct pressure will be sent to the injectors and the remainder will be sent back to the tank but to the left side. Now when the fuel pump starts to give in it does give enough pressure to force the fuel from the left side, through the "suction jet pump" and back to the right side. Therefore that overflow fuel stays on the left side and you consume all the fuel on the right side.
I find it happens with more range available when I have been driving on a straight road for a while. Explanation as to why on a straight road to follow in next paragraph. :=):

If you willing to do a little experiment then try this. When your car gets to about 1/4 tank or it starts to stutter as if it’s going die, hook a hard left, when safe to do so of course :rollsmile:, this will cause the fuel on the left side to slosh over to the right side, by the fuel pump and you should be able to continue driving for a bit. The fuel will not stay on the right side though, as when fuel is pump it goes through the pressure regulator and the overflow goes back to the left side.

Yoh, long explanation, but it’s the best way to explain it.

Hope this helps. If I’m wrong then please, someone correct me, but this is the experience I have had with my car and have proven there is still fuel in the tank and that the fuel level sensors are still working.

Oh, and there is a way to check how many litres of fuel are on each side of the tank, it involves accessing the "Hidden menu" when pressing the KM reset button before turning the key to the on position. Would explain that but I'm a bit tired of typing now.
Do a google search and you should find it. If you don't come right then let me know and i will post a explanation.

FYI, I got a quote from BMW dealer for fuel pump, I have the 2.2l 6 cylinder, quote was 5k just for the pump. Problem is that the dealer only sells the pump with the level sensor as 1 unit.

If you go to a parts dealer like masterparts or something you should be able to pick up the pump for around R800. Only problem is it’s a Pain in the Ass to separate the sensor from the pump.

Ok, that’s me.
PM me if there is any confusion or you require any further assistance.
:thumbs:

 

[Pho3niX90]

@jconradie

What a great explanation.

one question though, from your post it seems that there are 2 sensors, lets say for example one sensor is bad, then the jet pump wouldn't know to pump to the other side? Correct?

Reason being, I do get a error of Fuel sensor 1 each time this happens? At first thought nothing of it because how can a sensor cause this problem, but reading your explanation it makes MUCH more sense.

 

[jconradie]

Hey Pho3niX90

Ok, one thing I did not mention/explain about the "suction Jet Pump" is that It is not actually a "pump" but merely a siphoning pipe. There are no mechanical/moving parts to it. Why the hell BMW decided to call it a pump is anybody’s guess.

There are indeed 2 sensors. If I may ask, how are you reading the level sensor fault?

You are correct in saying that a faulty fuel sensor will have no effect on what happens with the "suction jet pump". The "pump" works only on the pressure produced by the fuel pump.

Even if your fuel level sensor/s were faulty your car would still run as long as there was fuel in the tank. The sensors are there just to tell us how much we have.
The fuel level sensors are easy to test when you have the fuel tank open from under the rear seats.

There are a couple of things that I feel could be the cause of the "running out of fuel" problem you are having.
1. The "suction jet pump" has come loose inside the tank. (Easy to fix)
2. There is a blockage in the "suction jet pump" (also easy to fix/clean)
3. Fuel filter/regulator blocked or faulty (easy to replace as the regulator is part of fuel filter)
4. Fuel pump is starting to pack up. (Also easy to replace once you have gained access to the fuel tank. Could just be expensive though)

The Fuel level sensors are also easy to replace should 1 or both of them be faulty.

I haven't changed my fuel pump yet as I was not paying 5k for a pump and sensor from the dealer when I know my sensor is still working. Did find the pump for R800 I think it was but haven't got around to opening the tank again to do the job.
Just been making sure I have more than 1/2 a tank of fuel.

Let me know if you need anymore help. :=):

 

[Pho3niX90]

There are indeed 2 sensors. If I may ask, how are you reading the level sensor fault?

I am using the pa soft bmw scanner to read faults.

If I take the seats off and remove the pump, will the pipe be visible or will it be at the bottom of the tank under all the fuel? If I remove it will the tank leak any fuel? or is the pipe running completely withing the tank?

I found the complete original pump on ebay for around R1300 incl shipping

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Another question, I have read on another forum just now about this, and someone mentioned after re plugging the "jet pump / pipe" his car doesn't hesitate on full throttle anymore, one thing that I noticed on mine is that when on stand still and I floor it, it has a hesitation, it jerks a bit then goes.

Could this also be the reason to that problem? If so, why is this?

 

[jconradie]

Hi Phe3nix

sorry I haven't replied in a while. Been crazy busy.

In my honest opinion i don't see how reconnecting the suction jet will make any difference on hesitation when accelerating. Mine is connected and i also sometimes get hesitation.

Maybe the suction jet pump will help with hesitation when fuel is quite low as the pipe clips into the base of the fuel pump. But on a full tank i don't see it having any effect.

I have been trying to source a pump for my car. I have found some places that sell them but don't have stock at the moment. Prices ranged from R750 - R2600. That is for the entire fitting (pump and level sensor), So it might be better for you to rather get one locally rather than import as if you are maybe supplied with the incorrect part it will be easier to return.

My car is due a service quite soon so I'm going to see if i can hold out till then and get them to check it out. Maybe do a pressure test on the fuel system.

I can provide you with an update once i have the info if you like and if you haven't already fixed your problem.
If you have fixed, what did you do?

If I take the seats off and remove the pump, will the pipe be visible or will it be at the bottom of the tank under all the fuel? If I remove it will the tank leak any fuel? or is the pipe running completely withing the tank?

You don't need to remove the pump to access the suction jet pump. The main part of the suction jet pump is under the passenger side of the rear seat.
There are 2 openings to the fuel tank, left and right. Drivers(right) side has the fuel pump and level sensor. Passenger(left) side has a level sensor and main part of the suction jet pump.

If you are going to open the tank try make sure you have as little fuel in it as possible. Before opening you need to remove pressure from the fuel lines to minimize fuel spillage. There will be a little bit of spillage but it will be minimal and it will be mainly from the fuel lines when removed from the top of the fuel pump. Just please make sure you have as little fuel as possible as it is much easier to work like that.

Also, be really really careful when working with the fuel tank, petrol fumes are also highly flamable, I'm sure you knew that but just mentioning as some people tend to forget that!

Removing the pipe (suction jet pump) will not cause your tank to leak any fuel. Only a little that might be within the pipe when removing.