Car finance

[IWannaGoFast]

Hi Guys;

Is there a difference between organising your own finance vs letting the dealer do it ?

 

[jaxx]

Hi Guys;

Is there a difference between organising your own finance vs letting the dealer do it ?

The dealer will most likely push the credit provider that offers him the best incentives, and not necessarily the one who offers you the best interest rate.

Only way to tell the difference is to apply on your own and compare the offers.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[TurboLlew]

Hi Guys;

Is there a difference between organising your own finance vs letting the dealer do it ?

In a nutshell, do both! Get yours first and make sure the dealer doesn't approach the same house or cancel your own finance when he is getting alternative options. The effort required to do this is minimal as you will have all the documentation required either way.

Not in a nutshell:
My recommendation is to go in with finance approved if possible. The dealer will normally try to get you to accept whatever the first offer is and they are incentivised on this by the finance house. I've always managed to bargain on interest rate by playing one house off on another until there is no more give from one side. You cannot do this effectively if the only party acting on your behalf is the one also selling you the car... You start with more power having your own finance. Let them try to source better deals for you (let them earn whatever comm they are getting over and above the profit on the sale) and continuously let your party renegotiate. Some dealers HATE this and will claim not to be able to pick up your approval on their system and for you to cancel whatever you have and apply through them. These are dealers that nowadays I walk away from. I had a very pleasant experience at Auto Bavaria vs. other dealers that actually were too lazy to go through the song and dance and at the end of the day I got a great deal. Entire timeframe from signing OTP to accepting a finance offer was 2 days for me. That's not long at all considering the significant difference in interest rate it got me.

Some members here have also had experiences where the dealer adds 10-15K to the price of a vehicle saying it is a requirement for finance deals (and not on wholesale deals) despite them making even more profit and even more comm as a debt originator.

 

[IWannaGoFast]

Hi Guys;

Is there a difference between organising your own finance vs letting the dealer do it ?

In a nutshell, do both! Get yours first and make sure the dealer doesn't approach the same house or cancel your own finance when he is getting alternative options. The effort required to do this is minimal as you will have all the documentation required either way.

Not in a nutshell:
My recommendation is to go in with finance approved if possible. The dealer will normally try to get you to accept whatever the first offer is and they are incentivised on this by the finance house. I've always managed to bargain on interest rate by playing one house off on another until there is no more give from one side. You cannot do this effectively if the only party acting on your behalf is the one also selling you the car... You start with more power having your own finance. Let them try to source better deals for you (let them earn whatever comm they are getting over and above the profit on the sale) and continuously let your party renegotiate. Some dealers HATE this and will claim not to be able to pick up your approval on their system and for you to cancel whatever you have and apply through them. These are dealers that nowadays I walk away from. I had a very pleasant experience at Auto Bavaria vs. other dealers that actually were too lazy to go through the song and dance and at the end of the day I got a great deal. Entire timeframe from signing OTP to accepting a finance offer was 2 days for me. That's not long at all considering the significant difference in interest rate it got me.

Some members here have also had experiences where the dealer adds 10-15K to the price of a vehicle saying it is a requirement for finance deals (and not on wholesale deals) despite them making even more profit and even more comm as a debt originator.

Thanks a lot Llew.
They need to teach you these things In school :ty:

 

[ChefDJ]

I once applied for finance through a dealer. They told me all 4 applications htey did for me were declined. I then did my own application through one of the banks they also did it through, and it was approved immediately. Turned out the dealer relayed incorrect information, like salary figures and expense figures were way out.

 

[ashley]

Hi
One of my "friends" worked for a car dealer, she let slip the commission they get on finance deals and insurance deals, plus the price the dealer gets cars from the factory.
okay this was a few years ago.

No comment, hence why I buy second hand only, will NEVER buy New!
and try pay cash!

 

[Deren]

Hi Guys;

Is there a difference between organising your own finance vs letting the dealer do it ?

In a nutshell, do both! Get yours first and make sure the dealer doesn't approach the same house or cancel your own finance when he is getting alternative options. The effort required to do this is minimal as you will have all the documentation required either way.

Not in a nutshell:
My recommendation is to go in with finance approved if possible. The dealer will normally try to get you to accept whatever the first offer is and they are incentivised on this by the finance house. I've always managed to bargain on interest rate by playing one house off on another until there is no more give from one side. You cannot do this effectively if the only party acting on your behalf is the one also selling you the car... You start with more power having your own finance. Let them try to source better deals for you (let them earn whatever comm they are getting over and above the profit on the sale) and continuously let your party renegotiate. Some dealers HATE this and will claim not to be able to pick up your approval on their system and for you to cancel whatever you have and apply through them. These are dealers that nowadays I walk away from. I had a very pleasant experience at Auto Bavaria vs. other dealers that actually were too lazy to go through the song and dance and at the end of the day I got a great deal. Entire timeframe from signing OTP to accepting a finance offer was 2 days for me. That's not long at all considering the significant difference in interest rate it got me.

Some members here have also had experiences where the dealer adds 10-15K to the price of a vehicle saying it is a requirement for finance deals (and not on wholesale deals) despite them making even more profit and even more comm as a debt originator.

:ty:

 

[low_flyer]

hi all,

i am the new car manager at kia airport (Kempton)
if you are unsure or need advice regarding finance you are
most welcome to give me a call and i will try my best to give guidance
where i can.

in short thou dealers (ethical ones of cause) can negotiate the rate and structure better then doing PVT finance however some dealers feel the need to add "products" onto the deal to make it better for the client, if it is or not that is at the discretion of the client. equity in the vehicle also plays a big role in the structure. over booking (over retail) can negatively impact the deal as well as the age of the vehicle. every time you apply also means your scoring changes so hypothetically if you applied at 4 dealers with 4 banks that 16+ checks against your scoring.......... banks can decline the deal based on it being an irregularity or variance of information provided. i have had clients get prime at dealer one and by the time they get to me i am lucky to secure prime +3 because of the score drop.

everyone is unique and each deal is different but rule of thumb is every 100k borrowed - installment wise should be R2000 - R2200 and only apply when you found what you want.

hit me up with a PM or call me and i will be more then happy to give guidelines.



Just for the record as well, in the "old" days new cars had decent amounts of money in them but with the recessions and the current economic situation in this country, such margins have been drastically decreased in order to keep the prices of vehicles inline with market values. some brands do have more then others but slowly everyone is leaning over to the volume side to make up for it. from experience in "those" days vs today.............. those days 6 cars sold earnings vs today would equate to 10+ cars. dont let second hand car seem cheaper either :biglol: pay less and sell for alot :biglol:

 

[TurboLlew]

hi all,

i am the new car manager at kia airport (Kempton)
if you are unsure or need advice regarding finance you are
most welcome to give me a call and i will try my best to give guidance
where i can.

in short thou dealers (ethical ones of cause) can negotiate the rate and structure better then doing PVT finance however some dealers feel the need to add "products" onto the deal to make it better for the client, if it is or not that is at the discretion of the client. equity in the vehicle also plays a big role in the structure. over booking (over retail) can negatively impact the deal as well as the age of the vehicle. every time you apply also means your scoring changes so hypothetically if you applied at 4 dealers with 4 banks that 16+ checks against your scoring.......... banks can decline the deal based on it being an irregularity or variance of information provided. i have had clients get prime at dealer one and by the time they get to me i am lucky to secure prime +3 because of the score drop.

everyone is unique and each deal is different but rule of thumb is every 100k borrowed - installment wise should be R2000 - R2200 and only apply when you found what you want.

hit me up with a PM or call me and i will be more then happy to give guidelines.



Just for the record as well, in the "old" days new cars had decent amounts of money in them but with the recessions and the current economic situation in this country, such margins have been drastically decreased in order to keep the prices of vehicles inline with market values. some brands do have more then others but slowly everyone is leaning over to the volume side to make up for it. from experience in "those" days vs today.............. those days 6 cars sold earnings vs today would equate to 10+ cars. dont let second hand car seem cheaper either :biglol: pay less and sell for alot :biglol:

Thanks for the response!! :clapper:

For the two highlighted areas in red:

These products are usually impossible-to-claim-from 'insurances' or warranties not worth the paper they are printed on. What in your experience has really been in favour of the client?

Clearly, even from your post, this is a direct result of unethical dealer practices where they basically want you to purchase the car before even getting a test drive. Does your dealership require you to have a credit check done before test driving a vehicle?

 

[low_flyer]

hi all,

i am the new car manager at kia airport (Kempton)
if you are unsure or need advice regarding finance you are
most welcome to give me a call and i will try my best to give guidance
where i can.

in short thou dealers (ethical ones of cause) can negotiate the rate and structure better then doing PVT finance however some dealers feel the need to add "products" onto the deal to make it better for the client, if it is or not that is at the discretion of the client. equity in the vehicle also plays a big role in the structure. over booking (over retail) can negatively impact the deal as well as the age of the vehicle. every time you apply also means your scoring changes so hypothetically if you applied at 4 dealers with 4 banks that 16+ checks against your scoring.......... banks can decline the deal based on it being an irregularity or variance of information provided. i have had clients get prime at dealer one and by the time they get to me i am lucky to secure prime +3 because of the score drop.

everyone is unique and each deal is different but rule of thumb is every 100k borrowed - installment wise should be R2000 - R2200 and only apply when you found what you want.

hit me up with a PM or call me and i will be more then happy to give guidelines.



Just for the record as well, in the "old" days new cars had decent amounts of money in them but with the recessions and the current economic situation in this country, such margins have been drastically decreased in order to keep the prices of vehicles inline with market values. some brands do have more then others but slowly everyone is leaning over to the volume side to make up for it. from experience in "those" days vs today.............. those days 6 cars sold earnings vs today would equate to 10+ cars. dont let second hand car seem cheaper either :biglol: pay less and sell for alot :biglol:

Thanks for the response!! :clapper:

For the two highlighted areas in red:

These products are usually impossible-to-claim-from 'insurances' or warranties not worth the paper they are printed on. What in your experience has really been in favour of the client?

Clearly, even from your post, this is a direct result of unethical dealer practices where they basically want you to purchase the car before even getting a test drive. Does your dealership require you to have a credit check done before test driving a vehicle?

ok so some products can be beneficial to the client, I am not saying the claim process may be simple as its outsourced obviously but i have a close mate for example took a motorite warranty and recently his turbo went...... they didnt pay the full cost but they have covered a good 80% of the cost of it. car was in for repair for less than a week. personally consider that to be fairly quick considering parts availability and engineering needed to be done.

if you only travel 10 000km a year is anything necessary? if you travel 45 000km a year then i guess a basic service plan or warranty booster could be beneficial. all things considered its dependent on vehicle, client, financial situation and overall plan going forward.


Credit checks are not compulsory but some dealers and myself included would suggest it to a client if he seemed to be a "tyre kicker" - picture a young couple fresh out of school walking in and asking to drive a Golf R.......... is it a sale or just a joy ride?
not saying all cases are like this but just an example. if a client is completely satisfied only then would i suggest doing an pre approval but again this is after everything has taken place, test drive, vehicle choice, price neg, all questions answered its defiantly not something done up front.

The "dodgy" dealers i am referring to are like Piets used cars on the corner. the not bound by a major group and can operate as they please. They can bend the rules and act reckless if they choose to as they don't have a manufacture setting corporate standards and playing by the same rules we are. i have also bought many cars on HP privately and i can tell you for a fact when i looked at the information i provided the deal and how they captured that information to the bank its quite a hair raising exercise. never knew i was self employed and earning a wack of a salary. when questioning the dealership its was a oooooops "finger error" but as the consumer i sat having to explain to the bank at the next dealer as to why things changed.

---

hi all,

i am the new car manager at kia airport (Kempton)
if you are unsure or need advice regarding finance you are
most welcome to give me a call and i will try my best to give guidance
where i can.

in short thou dealers (ethical ones of cause) can negotiate the rate and structure better then doing PVT finance however some dealers feel the need to add "products" onto the deal to make it better for the client, if it is or not that is at the discretion of the client. equity in the vehicle also plays a big role in the structure. over booking (over retail) can negatively impact the deal as well as the age of the vehicle. every time you apply also means your scoring changes so hypothetically if you applied at 4 dealers with 4 banks that 16+ checks against your scoring.......... banks can decline the deal based on it being an irregularity or variance of information provided. i have had clients get prime at dealer one and by the time they get to me i am lucky to secure prime +3 because of the score drop.

everyone is unique and each deal is different but rule of thumb is every 100k borrowed - installment wise should be R2000 - R2200 and only apply when you found what you want.

hit me up with a PM or call me and i will be more then happy to give guidelines.



Just for the record as well, in the "old" days new cars had decent amounts of money in them but with the recessions and the current economic situation in this country, such margins have been drastically decreased in order to keep the prices of vehicles inline with market values. some brands do have more then others but slowly everyone is leaning over to the volume side to make up for it. from experience in "those" days vs today.............. those days 6 cars sold earnings vs today would equate to 10+ cars. dont let second hand car seem cheaper either :biglol: pay less and sell for alot :biglol:

Thanks for the response!! :clapper:

For the two highlighted areas in red:

These products are usually impossible-to-claim-from 'insurances' or warranties not worth the paper they are printed on. What in your experience has really been in favour of the client?

Clearly, even from your post, this is a direct result of unethical dealer practices where they basically want you to purchase the car before even getting a test drive. Does your dealership require you to have a credit check done before test driving a vehicle?

ok so some products can be beneficial to the client, I am not saying the claim process may be simple as its outsourced obviously but i have a close mate for example took a motorite warranty and recently his turbo went...... they didnt pay the full cost but they have covered a good 80% of the cost of it. car was in for repair for less than a week. personally consider that to be fairly quick considering parts availability and engineering needed to be done.

if you only travel 10 000km a year is anything necessary? if you travel 45 000km a year then i guess a basic service plan or warranty booster could be beneficial. all things considered its dependent on vehicle, client, financial situation and overall plan going forward.


Credit checks are not compulsory but some dealers and myself included would suggest it to a client if he seemed to be a "tyre kicker" - picture a young couple fresh out of school walking in and asking to drive a Golf R.......... is it a sale or just a joy ride?
not saying all cases are like this but just an example. if a client is completely satisfied only then would i suggest doing an pre approval but again this is after everything has taken place, test drive, vehicle choice, price neg, all questions answered its defiantly not something done up front.

The "dodgy" dealers i am referring to are like Piets used cars on the corner. the not bound by a major group and can operate as they please. They can bend the rules and act reckless if they choose to as they don't have a manufacture setting corporate standards and playing by the same rules we are. i have also bought many cars on HP privately and i can tell you for a fact when i looked at the information i provided the deal and how they captured that information to the bank its quite a hair raising exercise. never knew i was self employed and earning a wack of a salary. when questioning the dealership its was a oooooops "finger error" but as the consumer i sat having to explain to the bank at the next dealer as to why things changed.

excuse the spelling errors i am using my phones browser to reply.

 

[TurboLlew]

Motorite and Liquid Capital are good products no doubt, but these are not the ones I'm referring to. Motorite as an example essentially WAS the motorplan when I bought my S2000. However when you sign on a car there are many scratch/dent/tyre/rim/top up covers etc that you need to decline. Many are coerced into buying these products without even being given a chance to read what they are about. I've had friends and relatives try to claim and they then cite limits necessitating use of comprehensive insurance anyway.

I feel like stereotyping in this day and age is bad business practice from a dealer and brand perspective. It is the reason I will never buy a Jag and why I am unlikely to buy from Mercedes either. I've literally had Mercedes tell me they don't think there is anything in my price range when shopping for my M. It is insulting when you are the victim of this. Looking at the guys driving M4s and 7Rs, it looks like a lot of young people just out of highschool or university are getting them. Also had MANY dealers not care about even checking my pre-approval, hungry to tie me into a deal on their own terms.

Not saying tyre kickers are to be entertained but using the pre-approval as a barrier is detrimental to all involved (credit scores, and to your deal as the affected buyer may be put off the interest rate and pull out).

As to having to answer to HQ? Well it didn't stop Hyundai Sandton from fraudulent activities and they are still open - in fact HQ went out of their way to keep us quiet and I even got copied onto trails where us (as people who had been victims of this dealer) were spoken about in a derogatory fashion. I think this is a case of buyer beware regardless of whether you are buying from Frikkie Foose or Bentley

 

[Nick]

I work for Hyundai Sandton, id love to know how they did you wrong LLew.

Let me know, maybe i can help fix the situation.

 

[low_flyer]

Motorite and Liquid Capital are good products no doubt, but these are not the ones I'm referring to. Motorite as an example essentially WAS the motorplan when I bought my S2000. However when you sign on a car there are many scratch/dent/tyre/rim/top up covers etc that you need to decline. Many are coerced into buying these products without even being given a chance to read what they are about. I've had friends and relatives try to claim and they then cite limits necessitating use of comprehensive insurance anyway.

I feel like stereotyping in this day and age is bad business practice from a dealer and brand perspective. It is the reason I will never buy a Jag and why I am unlikely to buy from Mercedes either. I've literally had Mercedes tell me they don't think there is anything in my price range when shopping for my M. It is insulting when you are the victim of this. Looking at the guys driving M4s and 7Rs, it looks like a lot of young people just out of highschool or university are getting them. Also had MANY dealers not care about even checking my pre-approval, hungry to tie me into a deal on their own terms.

Not saying tyre kickers are to be entertained but using the pre-approval as a barrier is detrimental to all involved (credit scores, and to your deal as the affected buyer may be put off the interest rate and pull out).

As to having to answer to HQ? Well it didn't stop Hyundai Sandton from fraudulent activities and they are still open - in fact HQ went out of their way to keep us quiet and I even got copied onto trails where us (as people who had been victims of this dealer) were spoken about in a derogatory fashion. I think this is a case of buyer beware regardless of whether you are buying from Frikkie Foose or Bentley

i would love to know more about the Sandton chronicals.......

i hear you about these "young" buyers but should a person be lets say 19+ years old and earning or even be a cash buyer...... they wont have a problem proving this or even try hold back from giving the info over. but of they working at the local ice rink selling hot dogs they would probably throw the card of you know who i am lol

cant judge a book by its cover and as a buyer/selling there just needs to be open communication.


The dent/scratch plan i have it on my car its a ball ache to claim but i have used it a few times for curb rash and windscreen fills, Did i get my monies worth - not yet but still have a little over a year to go.

 

[Sabretooth tiger]

The dent/scratch plan i have it on my car its a ball ache to claim but i have used it a few times for curb rash and windscreen fills, Did i get my monies worth - not yet but still have a little over a year to go.

I had this on one of my ex cars. I never had a problem claiming, and actually got paid out, and went to my independent panel shop for the repairs, paid half of the initial quote, and used the rest of the money for two rear tires. I found value in having this, over the three years I owned that car, and having ended up with full trade value, when I traded it in.

And I actually asked the other crap the placed on my OTP to be removed, and leave the dent/scrath plan or I walk. They removed it. So its important not to just sign, but read what you sign for.

 

[low_flyer]

The dent/scratch plan i have it on my car its a ball ache to claim but i have used it a few times for curb rash and windscreen fills, Did i get my monies worth - not yet but still have a little over a year to go.

I had this on one of my ex cars. I never had a problem claiming, and actually got paid out, and went to my independent panel shop for the repairs, paid half of the initial quote, and used the rest of the money for two rear tires. I found value in having this, over the three years I owned that car, and having ended up with full trade value, when I traded it in.

And I actually asked the other crap the placed on my OTP to be removed, and leave the dent/scrath plan or I walk. They removed it. So its important not to just sign, but read what you sign for.

100% with you on this one. saved me alotta cash mid month so far and i guess not having to replace the screen alone saves the insurance premiums going up
let alone the time spent at PG glass.
all boils down does the purchaser need it/will he use it/ whats his plan going forward

 

[TurboLlew]

Motorite and Liquid Capital are good products no doubt, but these are not the ones I'm referring to. Motorite as an example essentially WAS the motorplan when I bought my S2000. However when you sign on a car there are many scratch/dent/tyre/rim/top up covers etc that you need to decline. Many are coerced into buying these products without even being given a chance to read what they are about. I've had friends and relatives try to claim and they then cite limits necessitating use of comprehensive insurance anyway.

I feel like stereotyping in this day and age is bad business practice from a dealer and brand perspective. It is the reason I will never buy a Jag and why I am unlikely to buy from Mercedes either. I've literally had Mercedes tell me they don't think there is anything in my price range when shopping for my M. It is insulting when you are the victim of this. Looking at the guys driving M4s and 7Rs, it looks like a lot of young people just out of highschool or university are getting them. Also had MANY dealers not care about even checking my pre-approval, hungry to tie me into a deal on their own terms.

Not saying tyre kickers are to be entertained but using the pre-approval as a barrier is detrimental to all involved (credit scores, and to your deal as the affected buyer may be put off the interest rate and pull out).

As to having to answer to HQ? Well it didn't stop Hyundai Sandton from fraudulent activities and they are still open - in fact HQ went out of their way to keep us quiet and I even got copied onto trails where us (as people who had been victims of this dealer) were spoken about in a derogatory fashion. I think this is a case of buyer beware regardless of whether you are buying from Frikkie Foose or Bentley

i would love to know more about the Sandton chronicals.......

i hear you about these "young" buyers but should a person be lets say 19+ years old and earning or even be a cash buyer...... they wont have a problem proving this or even try hold back from giving the info over. but of they working at the local ice rink selling hot dogs they would probably throw the card of you know who i am lol

cant judge a book by its cover and as a buyer/selling there just needs to be open communication.


The dent/scratch plan i have it on my car its a ball ache to claim but i have used it a few times for curb rash and windscreen fills, Did i get my monies worth - not yet but still have a little over a year to go.

If I start about Sandton I won't end... had a whole writeup on another forum

From the height of my aggravation: I actually went to another dealer and bought a belt to show them how full of kak they were... They were also dumb enough to copy me into internal mails. Tweet below

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/697736097795805184

This is from the #1 Hyundai branch in SA which makes it even more of a joke.

God knows how much they took Liquid Capital for with people who never checked. Car has been good but the dealer in Midrand and Sandton will never see us again. We now use Weltevreden.

 

[Nick]

Plz let me know if you need anything else, im in the technical side of Hyundai with nearly 9 years under my belt.
I know all the brass all the way to the top.

0726384543 if you need anything.

 

[low_flyer]

Plz let me know if you need anything else, im in the technical side of Hyundai with nearly 9 years under my belt.
I know all the brass all the way to the top.

0726384543 if you need anything.

now that you mention it.......... which spar can i win a car at lol

:tiptoe:

good to know if i sukkel with Kia tech might give you a call too after all its the same thing

 

[Nick]

Kia is worse, i choose not to care about Kia.