Braking

[sclass]

Wsup fellas,

Maybe you guys can shed some light on the impact of mass transfer on braking. My car brakes MUCH MORE effectively on a decline...it 'feels' like the tyres and brakes are working in unison to stop the car and the ABS only engages at the 'limit'; I can really mash the brake pedal. That's in sharp contrast with level road braking, I never feel like there enough bite and the ABS engages early. This has me wondering whether the difference would be as marked on the standard springs. Should there be this much difference and/or does it differ from car to car and from setup to setup?

Cheers :thumbs:

 

[Caddy101]

What car is it?

I have the same experience with my E90. Just before I changed the brakes, I could really scare passengers; come barreling towards a sharp corner and the old almost worn out brakes could very easily dispose of the speed...

Now, with relatively new brakes, I can't do that. The car doesn't slow down as rapidly as it used to. I was thinking maybe I need to replace the discs as well
:fencelook:

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Sclass has a really sweet e36 328i...

 

[wikk3d88]

more mass towards the front = more weight on tyres = bigger contact patch = more effective braking

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also, most of your braking is done by the front discs anyway

 

[sclass]

What car is it?

I have the same experience with my E90. Just before I changed the brakes, I could really scare passengers; come barreling towards a sharp corner and the old almost worn out brakes could very easily dispose of the speed...

Now, with relatively new brakes, I can't do that. The car doesn't slow down as rapidly as it used to. I was thinking maybe I need to replace the discs as well
:fencelook:

I have a lowered (Koni) E36 328 with PowerBrake GT1 brakes.
Do you do have pronounced ridges on your discs, might be time for a changed if so...

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more mass towards the front = more weight on tyres = bigger contact patch = more effective braking

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also, most of your braking is done by the front discs anyway

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Thanks, I think I get that, just wondering if the difference between level and downhill braking should be THAT pronounced? I also thought that the extra momentum from downhill braking would overload the front tyres effectively cancelling out the benefit of the larger contact patch?

 

[moranor@axis]

what pads do you have at the back?

higher friction pads at the front will make this more noticeable... cant say that I notice any 'extra' braking on my car down hill... I am currently on ebc redstuff pads all round...

then again i use alot of engine braking...

 

[sclass]

what pads do you have at the back?

higher friction pads at the front will make this more noticeable... cant say that I notice any 'extra' braking on my car down hill... I am currently on ebc redstuff pads all round...

then again i use alot of engine braking...

The rear is all OEM (discs/pads)...

I think most of it comes down to mass transfer, but then the implication is that stiffening AND lowering your suspension negatively affects braking...that can't be right :thinking: ???

 

[moranor@axis]

the stiffer the car the more work the tires have to do so there is a balance that needs to be struck...

Think of a gocart... they have no suspension but very good tires so still handle very well under track conditions

That said the Koni springs you have are setup street tires so unless you using bad tires there should not be a negative effect on grip levels...

on lowering the lower you go the flatter the car stays this helps distribute the weight of the car more evenly improving grip on the same tires... there is also a limit to lowering also because lower means less travel and a higher spring rate is needed to stop the car from bottoming out...

also if you go too low the control arms will be at the wrong angles and cause other handling issues... race cars can run super low because they have modified control arms or relocated sub-frames (sometimes even completely different setups to the stock car ) to address control arm angles

 

[sclass]

the stiffer the car the more work the tires have to do so there is a balance that needs to be struck...

Think of a gocart... they have no suspension but very good tires so still handle very well under track conditions

That said the Koni springs you have are setup street tires so unless you using bad tires there should not be a negative effect on grip levels...

on lowering the lower you go the flatter the car stays this helps distribute the weight of the car more evenly improving grip on the same tires... there is also a limit to lowering also because lower means less travel and a higher spring rate is needed to stop the car from bottoming out...

also if you go too low the control arms will be at the wrong angles and cause other handling issues... race cars can run super low because they have modified control arms or relocated sub-frames (sometimes even completely different setups to the stock car ) to address control arm angles

Hmmm guess I'll only find out when the time comes to replace the front rubber...and the Gabriels :fencelook:...

 

[moranor@axis]

Eish forgot you still have the Gabriels on the front... when you fit the Koni in front it will change things dramatically :rollsmile: could be that the front springs are slightly underdampered causing this issue... stiffer springs with floppy dampers is not a good recipe for handling...

 

[sclass]

Hope to holler at you soon for those :thumbs: