BMW to go Front wheel drive!!!

[Coisman]

imp:
Mike, I hear what you are saying, but mate, bmw still has allot of say in the mini production.
in any case, the new bmw FWD cars will indeed be based on the mini chassis,
here is a link to another article I found:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/244420/bmws_new_baby_zeroes_in_on_fiesta.html
and I quote: "...The hatch will be based on the next-generation MINI platform, making it the first-ever
front-wheel-drive BMW..."

I would also like to post this article written by John Druker in March 2010 already
FWD + BMW = Brand Dilution?

Well, thanks to my fine and friendly automotive contact Eric, I found out that BMW is going front-wheel drive on a
new small series of cars. So immediately, the straight-cut gears in my poorly lubricated motor of a brain started
churning and whirling and causing friction and heat and sparks. And then I thought, what is BMW doing to THE BRAND?

I have always associated BMW with rear-wheel drive cars, despite the massively successful Mini brand, and the
BMW move into all-wheel drive propulsion systems that the Bavarian marketing department decided to call
"Xdrive" -- most likely after one too many Andechser double bocks and a Weisswurst overload. But who am I to
criticize a tremendously successful auto maker and marketing machine that separates men and women from their
cash in such an efficient manner that the tax authorities are probably taking notes.

However, I still wonder if it will pollute the brand, or if not pollute, then dilute it. But then again, how many BMW
drivers do you know who couldn't tell you if their car has 12-wheel drive with atomic engines. A lot, I bet you.
Most owners know it's a premium brand so they can feel good about the station in life they have arrived at and
reward themselves with fine German machinery. But BMW built a brand on rear-wheel drive cars that had sweet
inline engines and amazing handling. And now they are quite squarely moving into the mainstream with this newly
conceived sub-1-series car that is FWD.

Now, anyone can tell you it's crazy to make a car that small with anything but FWD. And for packaging, weight
and emissions reasons, it's obvious why they have to go this route. But there will always be purists who say this
is a travesty and BMW is only diluting the brand. Yeah, and filling their coffers with so much moolah, they're using
euro and dollar bills as napkins in the C-suite to wipe off the caviar stains from the post-lunch food fight.

I think Porsche proved you can run roughshod over your brand without much worry if you know your customer.
Witness the Cayenne. This is a Porsche? Apparently, yes. And a successful one, too. Porsche knew that their
customers, no matter how hardcore, still want to have a Porsche in their driveway and at the country club our
ski hill or wherever. Porsche proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that if your customers like your name and product
enough, they'll pretty much let you do anything, as long as it's exclusive and fast enough.

BMW long ago went down the SUV route, but I could see an SUV with a BMW nameplate. Porsche no. But I did
have trouble imagining a FWD BMW, but they are going to do it. And be mighty successful at it.

Heaven forbid BMW abandons its inline-6 engine -- then there will be nasty posts galore!

imp:
I think this artcle prety much sums up why we we feel the way we feel, cause thats how I feel.
Also Mike, we didn't mean to sound like we were attacking or trying to single out the mini brand,
its just they are part of bmw, and I just felt why not just expand on that brand, than going and building
a front wheel drive bmw, thats all. :thumb:

 

[Sankekur]

BMW is a business and businesses will do what is need to make more money, if BMW wants to do this and think they can make more money by doing it, then they will, it is as simple as that really. Remember it is just a really small percentage of of people that really care about BMW's legacy and all that jazz, the rest of the people just want it out of badge snobbery, and they will like it if they get a cheap way to say "I drive a BMW" (just like an A class merc).

Don't worry the image and legacy of BMW is pretty damaged already, the fact that you can get 320's (any model for that matter) come from the factory adorned with M badges even though the car never even came close to the M division is kinda a killer for me, all this just so people can feel that they bought an M and say I have 320i M, when it is in fact as much an M as a toyota with an M badge on the back. They will be doing the same thing by doing a cheap FWD BMW, it just for the snob value, because that is what most people are interested in.

 

[Mike1]

Coisman

Fully understand where you guys are coming from... Can you imagine our surprise when they told us that MINI were launching a 4 wheel drive X1 sized Countryman...?

It was a slap in the face and yet much like BMW going to front wheel drive - This is an essential move for MINI as we need to expand the range. And we have expanded big time. In 2001 there was a hatch. Now we have over 4 models with another 3 on route and over 3 variations (cooper, cooper s and JCW) within those ranges. Nevermind the hardtop, softop and coupe roadster thats on its way. We have joined Dakar and WRC. We have a scooter on route as well as a Beachcomber Concept and a Coupe Countryman let alone the Mayfair and Camden Editions which are still in huge demand.

That is a major evolution for a brand with the limitations we have.

This is why I too am upset that BMW does not have a supercar - And hell. If making entry level FWD cars will get them closer to that then I say go for it.

Mike

 

[rayven_king]

BMW is a business and businesses will do what is need to make more money, if BMW wants to do this and think they can make more money by doing it, then they will, it is as simple as that really. Remember it is just a really small percentage of of people that really care about BMW's legacy and all that jazz, the rest of the people just want it out of badge snobbery, and they will like it if they get a cheap way to say "I drive a BMW" (just like an A class merc).

Don't worry the image and legacy of BMW is pretty damaged already, the fact that you can get 320's (any model for that matter) come from the factory adorned with M badges even though the car never even came close to the M division is kinda a killer for me, all this just so people can feel that they bought an M and say I have 320i M, when it is in fact as much an M as a toyota with an M badge on the back. They will be doing the same thing by doing a cheap FWD BMW, it just for the snob value, because that is what most people are interested in.

well damn cosign

 

[Fordkoppie]

BMW has been making AWD cars for a some time, going back the the e46 xi's (that is the earliest that I know of)

The AWD actually goes back to the e30 325iX (obviously not in SA)

 

[e46 guy]

just my 2c

ive grown up to believe that BMW were purists and for purists, back in the day when most of my friends were fans of Audi and VW and some of them liked the exotics of japan i always defended BMW cars as cars for real car lovers and drivers, while they were yapping on about turbo engines and four wheel drive i waved the BMW flag by explaining why they had to have a front engined naturally aspirated, manual, rear drive car and 9/10 pulled out the ///M3 card.
Proving to them what a great car really should be.

but needless to say all the things they were talking about filtered in and became apart of the BMW range as well, we started seeing 4WD drive BMW's like the X' series and more recently the X drive's(although BMW had 4WD 3 series cars available on the global market for years badged as "ix").
Then we started seeing Turbos on BMW's like the 335i and 135i(to my limited knowledge og BMW history the only turbo car in the past was the 2002 tii ) and apparently most new ///M engines aren't going to be naturally aspirated anymore (correct me if im wrong)

so what we have to face is that it is a sign of the times in fact it was just a matter of time before it did happen.

Personally a FWD BMW leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and never thought id see the day it happened, but then again 16 years ago i never thought id see a turbo on a BMW car as standard either. so onve again there is nothing left to do but embrace it i guess, and roll with it. :dunno:

makes me wonder if donuts and drifting are just going to become nostalgic memories discussed around campfires 40 years from now.

 

[Sankekur]

BMW has been making AWD cars for a some time, going back the the e46 xi's (that is the earliest that I know of)

The AWD actually goes back to the e30 325iX (obviously not in SA)

Yup someone has mentioned it before, but yeah the point is BMW did make a AWD version of the 3-series, they just came out in north america (for better driving in heavy snow I suppose)

 

[Hoffi]

lets look at the glass half full here the sub compact class of cars is almost becoming the bread and butter of car company's therefore if bmw sell more cars they make more money, more money means more money to spend on R&D and motorsport this could potentialy means better (if it's possible) M-cars, and even maybe more BMW's in more motorsport activities.

P.S this is very much glass half full scenario.

 

[Coisman]

imp:
I can almost garentee you one thing concerning the M-cars of the future...
in 10 years time the M-cars will be hatchback hybrid fwd cars, with 1.5liter turbo diesel engines. :mmm:

 

[moranor@axis]

The problem with Fwd is its like a disease next thing you know only the M cars are Rwd... Then you may as well be driving an audi

 

[Skwinty]

You BMW RWD heads are going to suffer big time when the oil runs out and electric cars are the only option.:mmm:

 

[moranor@axis]

Well there is good news there because its easy to put the electric motor in the back so then we might see more Rwd because they will cost the same to produce as Fwd

 

[Skwinty]

IMO, the TESLA roadster is the only decent electric car.

One small problem though, COST= $120,000.

Almost a million bucks.

It is RWD.imp:

Batteries only have a limited life span, so budget for big time maintenance costs and short drives at high speed.

 

[moranor@axis]

Fuel cells also use electric motors and costs will come down when the technology becomes more mainstream

I've looked into converting a car to electric and the electronics are just not available the main problem is the motor most industrial motors with decent power are way to big and heavy which means you have to find someone who can build you what you need which is not cheap

 

[Skwinty]

Electric cars are a long way from being affordable to the masses.
Superconductors may make them more efficient but probably more expensive.

My ideal in a car is acceleration and not top speed.
The Tesla does 0-100 in about 5.6 seconds.
Range = 480km.

My MINI does 0-100 in about 6.6 seconds and when I went to Namibia, I was getting close to 800km per 50 litre tank.

Cost for 2006 Cooper S 170k + less than 16k for mods.
I am happy with that.:excited:

 

[moranor@axis]

We have the technology motors are very efficient its just till now we have had no need for a compact high rpm 200kw motor

battery technology is not good thou that's why I prefer fuel cells they way lighter and don't degrade like batteries

The honda clarity costs about the same as a normal car in its class so when to ball eventually gets rolling the prices should be the same...

I'm still hoping internal combustion will make a break threw of some kind so we can burn hydrogen more efficiently. Mostly because I will miss the sound but realistically electric is the way to go

 

[BMW M]

BMW is a business and businesses will do what is need to make more money, if BMW wants to do this and think they can make more money by doing it, then they will, it is as simple as that really. Remember it is just a really small percentage of of people that really care about BMW's legacy and all that jazz, the rest of the people just want it out of badge snobbery, and they will like it if they get a cheap way to say "I drive a BMW" (just like an A class merc).

Don't worry the image and legacy of BMW is pretty damaged already, the fact that you can get 320's (any model for that matter) come from the factory adorned with M badges even though the car never even came close to the M division is kinda a killer for me, all this just so people can feel that they bought an M and say I have 320i M, when it is in fact as much an M as a toyota with an M badge on the back. They will be doing the same thing by doing a cheap FWD BMW, it just for the snob value, because that is what most people are interested in.

Sanekur,

I dont agree with 'much an M as a Toyota with a M badge'. I own a e90 320d M and I can tell you it looks, feels and performs a hell of a lot beter than a 'normal' 320d. Granted its not a 200+ kw monster (which I would love to own oneday) but it has subtle differences in looks, tweaked suspension, and definately in engine performance making it more responsive, may I dare say faster :mmm: than the normal 320d. Mine even has a number... 3 of 165. It makes it just as much an 'M' as any other 'M' out there...

About the front wheel drives... If you read the article, you will find that BMW has identified a gap in the market for a compact Luxury car, Thats all... Business is Business, and money makes Businesses better. What would you rather drive I say is the question... A Ford Fiesta/Focus, Toyota RunX, Golf VI or a German designed and engineered front wheel drive BMW...?? Mini's are succesfull for a reason, these guys must know what they are doing, otherwise it will not be feasable... And imagine, one of these days we might have a BMW 'Hot Hatch' other than the 135i.

 

[moranor@axis]

if i wanted to buy a fwd bmw i would choose the mini... and the 135i would not be as good as it is now it it was fwd...

 

[328ii]

Bet they will soon put a ///M badge on a FWD.

Shall sure burst out either laughing or crying or both.

*uckers i say - come on 2012 - it's the end

8?>

 

[moranor@axis]

2012 oh yes why are we worried ill worry when 2012 is over