Another oil question

Coisman

Administrator
Staff member
MiniMike19@DefinitiveDetailing said:
Coisman, does your car reach operating temperature during these short trips and more less for how long does she get used in these short trips at operating temp?

:pimp:
I was tought by my dad to ALWAYS let your car idle for a few minutes before you drive, so the temp would always be above the blue block, almost at the first white line before I start driving.
I also make sure to let the car idle for at least 2 minutes before I shut her off, no matter where i am, I always do this...
Why do you ask??
 

Philip Foglar

///Member
MiniMike19@DefinitiveDetailing said:
Philip, what oil is currently in your BMW?

Coisman, does your car reach operating temperature during these short trips and more less for how long does she get used in these short trips at operating temp?

The E90 I gather has SLX (assuming from its last service) but was topped up last year with 1l of Syntium. The other cars all have SLX...
 
M

Mike1

Guest
Coisman - Our father give us loads of wonderful and amazing advice in life but unfortunately that is one bit of advice that is not recommended.

Due to the wonderful nature of gravity the oil inside the engine ends up at the bottom in the sump overnight with very little oil at the top of the engine.

SLX is a 5W30 which means that its viscosity at startup is 5 and at operating temperature the viscosity is 30. This is measured at 0 degrees celsius in a laboratory. Here is some interesting info to ponder over.

At startup there is a moment of no/little protection within the engine for a few seconds, this all depends on the startup viscosity of the oil:

5W - Takes approximately 6 seconds to penetrate the entire engine at startup.
10W - Approximately 13 seconds
20W - Approximately 24 seconds

This is due to low oil pressure and poor circulation. This is why on cold morning you can hear your lifters for a few seconds and then its gone... Thats the oil reaching the top of the engine for the first time.

Lets say for example you start your car cold twice a day... Thats 12 seconds per day. 84 seconds a week and 336 seconds a month which is approximately 5 minutes a month. Which is an hour a year. Lets say your car is 5 years old. This means that for 5 hours of your cars life it has been run cold (Which is when engine tolerances are at their worst), with very little to none protection.

Nevermind your auto choke which is pumping twice as much fuel into the engine, running down your cylinders and nevermind the condensation this causes in your exhaust which will lead to rust...

The most wear experienced by an engine is at startup, this is proven fact.

Driving your car from JHB to my doorstep in Cape Town causes less wear than a couple of cold starts.

For this exact reason it not recommended to allow the car to idle at startup but rather to start and drive off straight away. This allows full circulation and oil pressure to get the oil moving faster and allows the temperature of the oil to increase quicker allowing the polymer to expand to 30 where it can provide its ultimate protection.

You must remember that one of the only reasons we have multi-grade oils is to cure the wear caused at startup. Whilst your car is idling outside your oil although circulating is only at say 25 viscosity so its circulating but it isnt protecting half of what it should if it were at 30 or 40 depending on the grade you use.

Idling the car for a few minutes after driving is noble and nobody can fault that but it isnt completely necessary on NA engines. This is vital though on engines with turbo's though - But thats another lesson.

So Coisman, rather start and drive straight away and get her juices flowing. She will get to operating temp quicker, the oil will do its job quicker and your fuel consumption will improve quite a bit too.

The E90 I gather has SLX (assuming from its last service) but was topped up last year with 1l of Syntium. The other cars all have SLX...

Assuming the car has SLX which we can confirm by calling the dealer that last serviced the car then a flush (although still recommended) is not required. A drain and replace with the Liqui Moly will be alright as both SLX and Top Tec are hydro-cracked so both share a common mineral oil base. Whatever SLX remains in the engine wont be much of a bother for the Liqui Moly and you wont have any issues. They are mixable but its better to rather try keep your fresh oil "pure" for want of a better term.

Hope this helps. You may notice I moved to my pc for this... :rollsmile:

All these men discussing lube so late at night... Tsk Tsk
 

Slamz

///Member
:praise::praise::praise: minimike... thats the best explanation i've got on this topic... SLX ftw :thumbs::thumbs:
 

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
mike your work is never done :)

im using top tech 4200 5w 30 i use no oil between services and the engine seems to run very well...

what oil would you recommend... considering the engine sees high revs often and is driven very hard...
 
M

Mike1

Guest
The Top Tec 4200 is actually a VAG specific oil designed for Audi, VW, SEAT and Skoda.

It is an exceptional oil though with a 30 000km longlife approval, every VAG approval under the sun and most of my VAG clients who used that oil said the car felt smoother, quieter and also didn't use oil.

You can keep using that oil if you wish, I just find that at close to R500.00 for 5 litres its a tad expensive. :rollsmile:

You can use the Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 5W40 as this is a BMW specific oil with loads of BMW approvals and 04 Longlife approval too. Its a slightly thicker oil but you shouldnt really notice a difference in day to day driving other than an increase of about 0.3 on your fuel consumption.

:=):
 

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
i will stick to the 4200 5w 30 then the cost is not really an issue to me... probably will save that in fuel over the service period :rollsmile:
 

Dr Evil

Active member
Thanks for all the info guys, I really enjoyed reading this thread, Freerider use to run the liqui moly in the car I bought from him but at the last service before I bought it they put SLX in, so I decided I was going to continue topping up with the SLX until I do my yearly oil service on the car and change to liqui moly again. My car is an e46 320i and it mainly gets driven on weekends so if I do 10 000km a year with it it will be a lot. Shot once again.

Thanks for all the info guys, I really enjoyed reading this thread, Freerider use to run the liqui moly in the car I bought from him but at the last service before I bought it they put SLX in, so I decided I was going to continue topping up with the SLX until I do my yearly oil service on the car and change to liqui moly again. My car is an e46 320i and it mainly gets driven on weekends so if I do 10 000km a year with it it will be a lot. Shot once again.
 

Philip Foglar

///Member
Thanks again for all the info and advice Mike! I reckon once my car is out of motorplan I will do the switch over to Liqui Moly oils. Since I bought my 330i, it has been using some oil which I know the agents are going to say is within specs and in reality it is not too bad, but I am not accustomed to oil usage. Okay, the E90's are known for using oil, so I have generally not panicked about this. So far it has done about 7000 km since it was topped up and for a while now is showing quarter above minimum remaining - so at any moment now it is likely to drop to the minimum add 1 litre level...

I don't idle a cold engine, and like to think that I am generally very careful with my car's engines, so drive gently until warm and then and only then drive a bit harder every so often to get rid of cobwebs, then when getting closer to my destination I give the car a cool off period - turbo diesel mentality from also having a diesel bakkie.

LOL at talking about LUBE... From the movie Evolution, "...is there time for lubrication??", "THERE IS ALWAYS TIME FOR LUBRICATION!!" :fencelook:

Dr Evil, your car is identical in so many respects to my Wife's car, even the mileage is roughly the same, so interested to see how similar they are at this point.
 

Dr Evil

Active member
Hi Philip, since I got my car in May I have put on roughly 4000km and last week was the first time I topped up a bit on oil, not bad I think considering when I do drive my car on weekends I "enjoy" it to the max if you know what I mean.
 

Sankekur

///Member
Just to add here all the e46 I6's apart from the M3 take the same amount of oil, 6.5l. I usually just buy 2x5l cans. I use shell helix ultra, at first just got it cause it was the the cheaper option with regards to fully synthetic oil that is specced for BMWs, but with some more reading it seems that it is actually a really good oil. So that is what I will be sticking with.

@henry, the faces we made was because the oil filler cap was really dirty, looked like too long oil service intervals, or like non fully synthetic was used. I can't understand why BMW would have put in a semi synthetic oil cause as far as I know you should only put fully synthetic in these engines.

Personally I change my oil at around the 12k mark, just because it make me feel better, and that it pretty much also around a year of driving, and I know the newer oils are specced to last longer but I don't care, I just look at out 540i it was serviced at 2000km, 10000, 20000, 30000, 40000, 50000....... and the motor is still in really good shape, so maybe I am a bit old school, but i don't like to leave oil unchanged to to long.
 

Henry330i

Active member
Thanks everyone for there input. You see my wife drives the car weekly and I DRIVE it on weekend. We live 10km from her work. So its mainly stop start driving.

Anyways I got the oil filter kit from Menlyn auto today and air filter for good measure. Will get oil on Friday when I'm in Centurion. It will be Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 5W40.

Mike thanks again fro your input.

I'm very glad I started this thread. I for one learned a hell of allot.

PS Mike last test, best oil for my dads 81 e24 635csi?:rollsmile:
 

frikkieh

///Member
I just changed oil on my e46 every oil service interval as per recommendation, with the recommended oils BMW recommends.
Never had issues with oil.
She has 260 167km and going strong. Never flushed the engine and never overserviced the car :thumbs:
 

Swiegie

Active member
Hi

I also do not believe that a car can run 25000km without an oil service.

I see the dealers used the Petronas Syntium 3000 for the last two services on our BMW. Can they switch back to Casrtol SLX? The reason I am asking is because the car needs to go for a service in 2000km and I want to make sure that they use the right oil....

Also, when the car is out of plan I would like to do an oil change after every +-12000km. Can I use the Shell Helix ultra 5w40, or must I rather stick to the Petronas Syntium 3000 ?

Thanks
 
M

Mike1

Guest
Sigh...

I am no longer going to fight this. I am going to simply go insane. :nonono:

Castrol SLX: Technical Info

API Spec: SL
Longlife: Non existant

Syntium 3000 LL: Technical Info

API: SL
Longlife: BMW LL01

Now to explain, SLX is a VAG oil with very good specs but without a Longlife approval for high mileage in a BMW and with a SL spec that is outdated by about 6 years it is perfectly suitable to do that mileage in a car built in 2000 but not in a brand new BMW as the requirements of the oil change as the engine technology changes. The stresses on the current BMW engines are a lot more than your BMW built in 2000.

Syntium, was specifically formulated by Engen for South African BMW engines with a 01 Longlife approval (As of 2010) and an SL spec. The API spec is still old and outdated but the testing has shown that this oil can easily manage 25 000km in our climate hence the rating it has been giving.

Therefore it is simple. SLX is the wrong oil! Syntium is the oil you want them to use!

Or you could do as I recommend and give them Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 which has the latest SM spec (equivelant to a fully synthetic or Mobil 1) and the 04 longlife approval of over 30 000km.

The amount of knowledge in the oil industry quadruples every 3 years. What the engineers knew about oil when they formulated SLX vs what they know today when they formulated Syntium 3000 is vastly different and the improvement in spec and performance shows this.

The only reason your dealer doesnt chuck Liqui Moly in to your engine is because it is a premium lubricant with a premium price and because the workshop, machinary and service systems are subsidized by Engen or Castrol with the catch that they use their oils. Most of the equipment in your local dealer doesnt even belong to the dealership.

If you wish to waste your money, changing oil at 12 000km intervals when the oil is approved by BMW to have a minimal interval of 30 000km then go for it. It will make no difference whatsoever to the life of your engine or your cars performance.

Ai, why would you want them to chuck an outdated and inferior oil into your BMW? :sleep:

PS Mike last test, best oil for my dads 81 e24 635csi?

What is the mileage on the car? According to the Liqui Moly Oil guide you can use the Top Tec 4100 5W40 but I suspect if its high mileage a 20W50 may be better...

Will await some more info. :thumbs:

Mike

 
M

Mike1

Guest
Henry, with older cars like yours I am very wary of advice so would rather give you this phone number...

021 448 5564 - SOS Oil

Chat to Freddi there and tell him his son sent you to him for advice. My dad will be able to give you exactly the answer you need. :=):
 

Raybimmer

New member
How many people use say Shell for example.....because their family has used it for years . As I understand , mineral oil , synthetic based oil , and fully synthetic should not be mixed .I believe 10000 to 15000 km change intervals are ok , but would expect cars doing high annual mileage to run to 25 /30 000km between changes with good oils and still give long engine life .
A bmw e30 325i ran 1000 000 miles ( yes one million miles ) in Britain using Mobil 1 , due to the time taken to drive so far part of the test was done on a rolling road and the engine wear was within spec , proof that good oil will preserve your cars engine .
It is a pity when guys put a high quality low viscosity synthetic oil in an older car and the oil consumption increases due to excessive clearances in the engine and then blame the oil . No use starting to use 5w-30 at 300000 km !!
 
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