330dppk update and observation

[phantom]

I have been a bit disappointed by the fact that the exit speed on 402,800 and 1000mts only went up by 2km/h.Over the years i have found their is a direct corrolation between exit speed and engine power output.I also have a formulae that takes weight,cd ratio and frontal area into consideration.Based on the speed attained the 330dppk has closer to 200kw and not 210kw.The better times achieved can be attributed to the gearbox as the response time has come down from 0.2 to 0.1sec. My personal opinion is that here on the highveld the turbo struggles to achieve more engine kw. With small turbos you can ramp up the mid range but at higher rpm there will be minimal gain. The other factor i have seen is that there is a 0.6 seconds in accelleration time between tests done at 4 degrees and 19 degrees. This leads to the assumption that colder air is denser and can get closer to quoted figures.
I think there is a reason why BMW use 2 turbos on the 335d to produce 210kw.
The air density at sealevel would be close to 1000mb where we only have an average of 855mb.
Fuel consumption on open road has gone up from 4.5l/100 to 5.1l/100.
Fuel consumption in town has gone up from 7.5l/100 to 9.1l/100.

 

[babyboss]

D's also make alot Torque ..
So getting it off the line with xtra power just hits wheelspin !!

 

[phantom]

D's also make alot Torque ..
So getting it off the line with xtra power just hits wheelspin !!

No, infact quite the opposite, the car has very minimal wheelspin and driven in SPORT pulls away like a four wheel drive car. The 60ft pull away times are all between 1.49 and 1.6 secs. Anyone with datalogging or track times will tell you these are times reserved for slick tyres. The car is shod with Bridgestone 255/35/19 RFT tyres.:thumbs:

 

[phantom]

So i took the car down to ODI to get some figures.
Car ran 3 runs of 13.5 seconds so is very consistent on power delivery.
What is important to ascertain the power output is the speed attained.
Once again 3 runs were all 168km/h.
Based on the formulae i use the car had 217kw at ODI"S altitude of 1195mts above sea level.Atmospheric pressure was 890mb.
This is a full 15kw up on the power attained by me at 1505mts 847mb.:thumbs:
So the whole exercise was worth it and proves that the turbo is too small to produce more kw at higher altitude, as well as confirming that BMW actually underate figures if taken at sealevel and lower altitudes.
:thumbs:

 

[Andy1GP]

Very useful and interesting Joe. I didn't realise the Turbo is struggling to reach rated power so much. Would've thought it would overspeed somewhat to compensate.

 

[sash]

Very interesting indeed

 

[phantom]

Very useful and interesting Joe. I didn't realise the Turbo is struggling to reach rated power so much. Would've thought it would overspeed somewhat to compensate.

Remember BMW use safety features such as say 80% duty cycle so that the lifetime of products can at least make warranty distance. The turbo would be able to produce a bit more if programmed to 90% but the negatives are not worth it.
On the diesels you can keep pumping in diesel and make more power till the volume of air from the turbo cannot keep up then you just get a lot of smoke and a dirty bumper.
At this point you are creating a lot of heat and the over dilution of diesel is messing up your enjine oil.
A diesel enjine running rich has to have it's oil replaced every 5000km if you want longjevity.
The turbo also starts to build up excess heat due to overspinning (as you mentioned) and the effect this has is a power graph where you make a lot of power (say 3500rpm) instead of (say 4200rpm).
When doing power runs the vehicle that is able to maintain it's kw at higher RPM will be the faster.
I am always concerned when i see people doing software with any person who has access to software programs but has absolutely no idea how an engine and auxilliaries work.

.

 

[Kyle]

Very useful and interesting Joe. I didn't realise the Turbo is struggling to reach rated power so much. Would've thought it would overspeed somewhat to compensate.

Remember BMW use safety features such as say 80% duty cycle so that the lifetime of products can at least make warranty distance. The turbo would be able to produce a bit more if programmed to 90% but the negatives are not worth it.
On the diesels you can keep pumping in diesel and make more power till the volume of air from the turbo cannot keep up then you just get a lot of smoke and a dirty bumper.
At this point you are creating a lot of heat and the over dilution of diesel is messing up your enjine oil.
A diesel enjine running rich has to have it's oil replaced every 5000km if you want longjevity.
The turbo also starts to build up excess heat due to overspinning (as you mentioned) and the effect this has is a power graph where you make a lot of power (say 3500rpm) instead of (say 4200rpm).
When doing power runs the vehicle that is able to maintain it's kw at higher RPM will be the faster.
I am always concerned when i see people doing software with any person who has access to software programs but has absolutely no idea how an engine and auxilliaries work.

.

Thank you :bravo:

It's easy to up the boost and make millions of Kws, not many tuners care about longevity

 

[Andy1GP]

The last 2 posts are very valuable and very true. That's why as the 'customer/consumer' it's our responsibility to take extra care of our cars when modifying.

More frequent oil changes being the big one.

Joe I've done some more data logging using Morne's G-Tech pro. I managed to bring my 0-100 time down by 0.6 sec on average compared to when you and I tested. And using another launch technique up to 1.1sec. However the elevation is lower here than by you. You have me converted doing Logs

 

[phantom]

The last 2 posts are very valuable and very true. That's why as the 'customer/consumer' it's our responsibility to take extra care of our cars when modifying.

More frequent oil changes being the big one.

Joe I've done some more data logging using Morne's G-Tech pro. I managed to bring my 0-100 time down by 0.6 sec on average compared to when you and I tested. And using another launch technique up to 1.1sec. However the elevation is lower here than by you. You have me converted doing Logs

Great stuff Andy so much less stress on the car than racing a dyno.You are so much more involved and the adrenalin is good for you. :joy: Just keep it safe.Sounds like you are now getting "in tune" with your car.
The bigger IC will also help to maintain consistent times. :thumbs:

 

[Andy1GP]

Thanks Joe, yes the times are consistent considering I change gears ever so slightly at different rpms everytime.

Wrote down all the runs and comparing them on excel now.

 

[SP33DYV]

Thanks Joe, yes the times are consistent considering I change gears ever so slightly at different rpms everytime.

Wrote down all the runs and comparing them on excel now.

Nice, now you need to share your findings.

 

[Andy1GP]

I don't want to give away my secret launch control :fencelook:

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Ok here it is

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The very last run on the one side I tried to do an aggressive launch from the line but didn't seem to work as well.

 

[phantom]

I don't want to give away my secret launch control :fencelook:

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Ok here it is

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The very last run on the one side I tried to do an aggressive launch from the line but didn't seem to work as well.

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Nice to see you are using a tool with realistic figures. :thumbs:
From now on it's all about trying to see figures you have not seen before.
The best part is now trying to beat yourself. :joy:
Time to start looking for the 8speed auto box its 1/2 second faster. :idea:

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I don't want to give away my secret launch control :fencelook:

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Ok here it is

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The very last run on the one side I tried to do an aggressive launch from the line but didn't seem to work as well.

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Nice to see you are using a tool with realistic figures. :thumbs:
From now on it's all about trying to see figures you have not seen before.
The best part is now trying to beat yourself. :joy:
Time to start looking for the 8speed auto box its 1/2 second faster. :idea:

 

[Rayzor]

I don't want to give away my secret launch control :fencelook:

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Ok here it is

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The very last run on the one side I tried to do an aggressive launch from the line but didn't seem to work as well.

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Awesome stuff Andy :bravo:raise:

 

[phantom]

Ok so 7000km later and sanity has prevailed. Some more observation.
My fuel consumption on the car used to be an incredible mid 4 litres per 100km.After the PPK you struggle to get high 5.
After getting my new F30 335i I now see what the problem is.On the standard ECU when you take your foot of the accelerator your revs fall to idle status as if the gearbox has been disengaged.This function is only on ECO PRO.
I went to the dealer yesterday and we took a F30 330d off the floor to test that this function is on the diesel car as well as on the 335i.
The function is there.We then proceeded to load all the updates from BMW onto my car but to no avail.Therefore the software on the PPK ECU to my mind is a botchup.Why not still have the economy on the ECO PRO and just up the power on the sport and sport + then you have the best of both worlds?
Fuel consumption is a major part when people consider a daily vehicle
as it comes into play all the time.The more power from the PPK kit is something you may enjoy 10% of the time.
Based on this info i cannot recommend this kit until they fix up their software and am probably going to put my standaed ECU back into the car.
Expensive exercise but at least the brakes and bigger intercooler are not wasted.

 

[UpNcOmiNg!]

very interesting finding that.
You really should be able to do as you say seen as it shouldnt take more than coding to make that happen.
Lets hope this gets to BMW's ears somehow and they can rectify that.

 

[phantom]

So the PPK ECU is given the blame and we proceed to reinstall the standard ECU.Three hours later all the updates have been done on the standard ECU and we take a test drive.Guess what the function is still not there.
So typical whenever something does not work blame the modification.Some things never change.
Anyway technical is contacted and say this function should only be on the F15 (x5).
No way my F30 335I has it as well as a new F330d on the floor.
Ok redo all software updates including DME.
All done and now the car is completely dead and will have to wait till tomorrow to see what's going on. :thumbdo:

 

[DPpK]

Phantom , thanks for your post, my Ppk is still not in the country after 9 weeks I did speak to shaun today, still waiting for his call back. If I drive at speed limet Eco Pro Cruz control I get 4.8l /100 km , even less sometimes. I have seen post from UK and Germany where the guys claim better feul cons after Ppk. ... Do you think it is our dealers that are incompetent fitting it or is the problem with the kit.

I am seriously considering asking for my money back.... No sure if they will do it. Anyhow thanks for the updates and good luck sorting out your car.

 

[DPpK]

Ok so 7000km later and sanity has prevailed. Some more observation.
My fuel consumption on the car used to be an incredible mid 4 litres per 100km.After the PPK you struggle to get high 5.
After getting my new F30 335i I now see what the problem is.On the standard ECU when you take your foot of the accelerator your revs fall to idle status as if the gearbox has been disengaged.This function is only on ECO PRO.
I went to the dealer yesterday and we took a F30 330d off the floor to test that this function is on the diesel car as well as on the 335i.
The function is there.We then proceeded to load all the updates from BMW onto my car but to no avail.Therefore the software on the PPK ECU to my mind is a botchup.Why not still have the economy on the ECO PRO and just up the power on the sport and sport + then you have the best of both worlds?
Fuel consumption is a major part when people consider a daily vehicle
as it comes into play all the time.The more power from the PPK kit is something you may enjoy 10% of the time.
Based on this info i cannot recommend this kit until they fix up their software and am probably going to put my standaed ECU back into the car.
Expensive exercise but at least the brakes and bigger intercooler are not wasted.

Ok so if I understand you correctly the rpm drops to idle, my car defnetly does not do this in Eco pro mode or any mode, It does feel like it coast, but the rpm stay the same , even goes higher on steep down hills at any speed from 60 to 140kph.