320d F/L - Big white plume of white smoke...then nothing :-(

[stephenjansen]

Hi ya'll BMWfanatics!

I've joined the club on this one, hehe. My baby is in the shop for a turbo service, and 'other' repairs. As fate would have it my wife's car's turbo also decided to give it up (VW 1.9 Tdi). The VW is far worse than my car's; the VW's turbo shaft came appart and sent the exhaust impeller down the exhaust pipe smack in to the catalytic converter.

Anyhow, the guy at the repair shop removed the BMW's turbo (he is working on both our cars), and says that he cant find fault with the turbo, visually that is. He says the shaft play is well within tollerance and moving parts appear in good condition.

My question is; would you advise that he disassembles the turbo to check the oil seals too, and whatever else can be checked when appart?

Further more, the actual cause of the white plume of smoke may not be due to turbo failure, but far worse, exhaust manifolds 1 and 2 are soaked with oil, an initial compression test revealed that both these cylinders have slightly lower compression than their neighbors 3 and 4.

This problem was only discovered once the turbo, together with exhaust manifold were removed from the engine. Now the repair shop guy wants to know if I will approve removing the cylinder head to have a peak inside the combustion part of the enigne. I would imagine this is a no-brainer and he should open it up. What do you suggest? Could it be that the oil seal on the turbo gave in and sent oil the wrong way up the exhaust manifold when I tried several times to restart the engine, although laws of physics reject this idea whole heartedly

Your thoughts on this will be highly appreciated.

 

[rick540]

Well, the engine doesn't actually need the turbo to start or run, so if it's not starting the problem is likely not the turbo.

Ask him for the exact compression test results "slightly lower" could mean anything without figures. Even if two cylinders are trashed, the engine should maybe start and run very badly on the other two.

Blue smoke is from oil, white smoke could be a few other things.

He doesn't have to take the head off at all, tell him to borrow a bore scope (camera device in little flexible tube) he can go through the injector or glow plug holes. Removing the head if nothing is wrong is going to cost you serious $$$.

Did he read the >>>>>> Diagnostic codes <<<<<<<< before taking it apart, these will tell you what is wrong. I get the impression your mechanic is old school and likes to take stuff apart to diagnose. Rather try to solve this one by analysing the symptoms, codes and logic, it will be much cheaper.

 

[stephenjansen]

Thanks rick540 for the response,

Alarm bells ringing about the serious $$$ if removing the head unnecessarily...

I agree, the machanic does seem old school ito his approach to the problem. I will certainly pass on your good advice to him, and if he is unable to get hold of or have the necessary equipment, will then prefer a BMW experienced person to work on solving this. Do you know of a reputable repair shop/person in the Gauteng area, preferably in Pta?

 

[StK]

If its not the turbo...these are very prone on the 320D then it could be something far worse.....It could be the dreaded swirl flap failure,Its easily checked without removing the head though.If it is then its cheaper to throw in a new engine rather than try and rebuild the old one

 

[stephenjansen]

Hi StK, thanks for your input.

Ouch! Something tells me I could be in for big $$$'s.
What type of engine damage could the swirl flap cause?

General FYI: Got my wife's car (VW 1.9 Tdi) back today, the turbo core broke in 2 and sent the turbine (I hope I'm using the correct terminology, the exhaust part) down the exhaust into the catalytic converter. Anyhow, the friendly repair guys managed to remove the 'turbo shrapnel' from the exhaust, but apparently a load of oil was blasted down the exhaust too, which is probably clogging the cat, hence the engine's lack of performance after the repairs. I will have the cat replaced at the local exhaust shop that is 'Closer to you' on Saturday and check performance again. Hopefully this should clear up the outlet gas path, if not the problem, then ..ur..dunno, back to the repair guys...

If its not the turbo...these are very prone on the 320D then it could be something far worse.....It could be the dreaded swirl flap failure,Its easily checked without removing the head though.If it is then its cheaper to throw in a new engine rather than try and rebuild the old one

 

[StK]

Hi StK, thanks for your input.

Ouch! Something tells me I could be in for big $$$'s.
What type of engine damage could the swirl flap cause?

Catastrophic...what happens is the pins holding the flaps in place work loose then the flap drops into the cylinder.As you can imagine a solid piece of metal dropping into a cylinder while the engine is running is going to royally mess it up I am afraid

 

[Sankekur]

...which is probably clogging the cat, hence the engine's lack of performance after the repairs. I will have the cat replaced at the local exhaust shop that is 'Closer to you' on Saturday and check performance again...

Personally I wouldn't replace the cat, just have it removed as it will be the much cheaper option.

 

[Hellas]

The shrapnel'd cat definitely needs to be either replaced or removed (I'd go for the latter) since the increased back pressure from starting up to motor against a clogged cat will surely 'blow' the turbo again.

Also replace the breather valves on the top.

 

[stephenjansen]

Hi StK, thanks for your input.

Ouch! Something tells me I could be in for big $$$'s.
What type of engine damage could the swirl flap cause?

Catastrophic...what happens is the pins holding the flaps in place work loose then the flap drops into the cylinder.As you can imagine a solid piece of metal dropping into a cylinder while the engine is running is going to royally mess it up I am afraid

StK, your opinion of the swirlflap is sounding very likely as the culprit. Well, I'll suppose I should start looking around for another engine then. Any tips on this; should I go for new, recon or used. I suppose new will be best, but definitely most expensive:bawling:

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The shrapnel'd cat definitely needs to be either replaced or removed (I'd go for the latter) since the increased back pressure from starting up to motor against a clogged cat will surely 'blow' the turbo again.

Also replace the breather valves on the top.

Hellas, thanks for the advice. I agree about damaging the turbo, the car is parked in the garage until I can take it to the shop for cat removal. Will also have the breather valves replaced.

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...which is probably clogging the cat, hence the engine's lack of performance after the repairs. I will have the cat replaced at the local exhaust shop that is 'Closer to you' on Saturday and check performance again...

Personally I wouldn't replace the cat, just have it removed as it will be the much cheaper option.

Agreed, this will be the cheaper option. Exhaust shops sell a generic cat for around 2.5k. I wonder how, if any, they differ from the manufacturer OEM cat.

 

[stephenjansen]

Ok, so. The latest on my 320d's plume of white smoke is:

Eventually landed up removing the cylinder head. No damage to cylinders, pistons, or cylinder head. Hardly any ring wear on cylinders.

The cylinder head was refurbished since it was off the engine, may as well do the valves, valve guides, etc.

So what was wrong...injectors 1 and 2 failed completely, with 3 and 4 following close behind, barely working.

Also, turbo wear is well within tollerance, but have decided to replace with a new Garret turbo anyhow. Still deciding what to do with the old turbo, since it is in good working order.

This week the motor is being reassembled and should take her first gasp of breath again soon after a long silence.:excited: