2002 info

[Bertva]

Hi all

Hoping somebody can give me some information to my questions below.
I am looking at building a Marque racing car and have the possibility of purchasing a 1969 BMW 2002 that is a 1 owner car with all paperwork in place. The car has been standing for about 7 years and was driving when parked. The body works paint has taken a severe hammering and this would have to be redone. The interior is complete and in fair condition, not that this is an issue for a Marque racing car. What is the estimated value of this sort of car, it is located in JHB so rust should not be to much of a problem. Is there anybody on this forum who races a 2002 as I have seen a few racing at Zwartkops at would like to find out info relating to this. I am planning on installing a roll cage to the car and doing some intake and exhaust modifications to boost performance, latter some suspension modifications might be required and this would be an ongoing project as need and finances are evaluated.


Bertva

 

[Carbon]

Hi Bertva,

I own and restore 2 2002s and plan on a third for a race car but this will only be after the other two are complete(or close, as a project is never complete).

A 2002 makes for a great race car, with a little bit of work it can be turned into an amazing handling car!

I know the shop that build most of the 2002s you see racing, I can't recall the name right now but it is located on Pretoria road, just before Simon Vermoten ave in Silverton. They have build 3 or 4 2002 race cars, you can drop by their shop, the owner knows all about making them perform.

Also remember, standing cars can rust easily, no matter where. Inspect the car carefully.

As for racing... ALWAYS do suspension first, you will be much faster on a track with a under performing engine and a good suspension than a powerful engine with a sloppy suspension. I would spend money on wheels, bigger anti-roll bars and decent coil-overs first, then from there you can go crazy suspension wise, there are many ways to get a fast car. But you need to know what the rules regarding classic racing would allow you to do. You need to build a race car to the rules of a class. Never build a car and then look for a place/class to race it in. You will have an under performing car that way.

I would do minor mods to the engine to get it reliable. The 2002 stock exhaust flows good and is decent enough for a 150bhp engine but it is heavy though. Get a racing radiator first, reliability is key to a racing engine. Later you can get some Weber 45dcoe side drafts, preferably ones made in italy rather than spain, the spanish ones were a bit hit and miss in their quility. These carbs will be fine with small chokes on a standard engine and will also breathe on very hot engines and high rpm.

There are a million things that can be done to these cars, but most parts, esp racing parts will need to be imported. Probably the cheapest place to get racing parts would be Ireland Engineering in the US. Also for a very good suspension look at Ground Control or GAZ coilovers for a bit cheaper option.

As for the car's worth, it can be anywhere from R5000 to R50000 depending on condition. We need pictures to better evaluate.

My head is spinning a bit now so I can't think of much more. I hope this helps. If you have more questions or there was something I missed, please feel free to ask.

Regards
Jacques

 

[Luis Malhou]

Hi Bertva

Have a number of them waiting for restoration. Quite interested in the one you plan to buy. I went and had a look at 2 yesterday.

Would be interested in any of the parts you gonna chuck since you gonna build a race car.

Also get hold of Mike O-sullivan, he races them and knows a lot. What Classic man said also all true.

I have Mikes cell number but would need to ask him first before I just pass on his number out to people. He has a workshop out in Kyalami, he used to be out on the way to Boksburg way.

 

[Sith]

Bertva, you are dealing with the right guys here. Good luck!

 

[Gizmo]

I would also talk to the Team Afrox boys, their workshop is in kyalami grounds near the gocart track. They build bmw race cars all day, the 2002 they had on the lift has a S14 motor with very trick suspension, multi link rose joint suspension with fully adjustable coil overs.

 

[Carbon]

I would also talk to the Team Afrox boys, their workshop is in kyalami grounds near the gocart track. They build bmw race cars all day, the 2002 they had on the lift has a S14 motor with very trick suspension, multi link rose joint suspension with fully adjustable coil overs.

A 2002 like that will have no class to race in. If it had a Schnitzer 20-4, or maybe a M12/7, but not an s14. You would do that just for fun I guess.

If you want to build the car yourself there are a few suspension tricks that I know to make your setup better, like using e3/e9 control arms, they increase camber easily, add castor and flex less. Great for the track and cheap. Also you can swap your rear subframe mounts around to get it closer to the body. Shorten your struts and use Golf mk1 Billstein strut inserts. E21 trailing arms or modify an e30 subframe(heavier but more diff choices) Many little tricks you can try.

Also, I might be wrong, but I am guessing this is your first race car.
If so, get the suspension up to "trackday" spec for relatively cheap and go and have fun, try to improve your time by working with the car and keeping momentum. Then you upgrade piece by piece and feel the difference every new part makes. This gives you a MUCH better idea of how to set up a car for certain tracks and conditions as you know exactly what each part does to the car. Trying to figure out the other way around takes much longer and can become a headache.

Also I would not recommend a full rose jointed suspension just yet, there are just too many variables and adjustments that can be made to such a setup and you need to know EXACTLY what you want and need to make the car better and suit your driving style. Work with a (semi) stock suspension first with poly bushes and good adjustable shocks and coilovers, that should already keep you busy for a while. No need to go crazy just yet.

But most of all, have fun doing it.

Regards
Jacques

 

[Bertva]

Thanks to all for there response.

Jacques

I think your suspension mods are in line with what is allowed in the class I am aiming for see below the regulations governing suspension.

7.9.1. Suspensions may be modified with respect to ride height, camber and castor but mountings
must remain as per manufacturer's specification. Additional mounting points for the adding
of anti-roll bars, track rods and radius arms may be fitted. Shock absorbers make and types
are free. Coil springs may not be substituted for leaf springs and vice versa and one type
may not be used to supplement another type.
7.9.2. Suspension bushes may be replaced with non-period material

I think that I need to pick your brain more on suspension mods that fit within the regulations as you seem to have done some of this before.
I have been involved on off road racing only and this is a new venture to get into track racing.

Where are the soft spots relating to rust that I should check on when I go and do some more investigating on the car tomorrow.

Luis

If you can get me the contact no for Mike and he is OK with it then maybe I need to arrange to see him at his workshops to get some ideas of what he does and what he can do.
I will see what parts become available but building a Marque racing car requires that a lot of the standard trim has to remain fitted to the car to make it eligible.


Thanks to all comments

Regards


Bert

 

[Carbon]

7.9.1. Suspensions may be modified with respect to ride height, camber and castor but mountings
must remain as per manufacturer's specification.

Hey Bert,

I am not sure what they mean by this. Do they mean location of the mountings or the type of mounting. The stock 2002 strut bearing is a ball bearing mounted in rubber. With camber plates, you will have spherical bearings and no rubber. Is that acceptable? If so, you just need bigger AR bars, poly bushes, camber plates, coilovers, e9 control arms(if allowed) and you are set. Maybe some lower camber plates to get your suspension geometry right if your car is very low.

At the back this would mean you can not go with coil-overs as the spring mounts would have to be moved to the shock tower(technically) so you can still run adjustable shocks but will need to add adjustable spring perches to allow hight adjustment. The 2002 sub-frame is stiff, but the trailing arms have flex, so you have 2 options. Bolt in e21 trailing arms(same mounting points and stronger) or weld op the open end of the 2002 arms(make sure not to warp them). You will need solid sub-frame mounts, and poly bushes for the trailing arms. You can be seriously quick with a setup like that.

This is the easy part, the hard part is knowing how big to go with the AR bars and the stiffness of the springs, people at Ground Control and Ireland Engineering race 2002s, and they know what a good platform would be to work from, talk to them. But only time will tell.

The brakes on the 2002 are very good. With cooling ducts the stock brakes should be up to the task, but if you don't want to duct, there are ways for vented setups and also lighter calipers, all bolt on mods. (also rear disk brakes with a bit more work) THIS LINK you can buy 2002 brake setups but it is expensiver there.

As for rust look at THIS LINK

I have not built a race car before. I have only planned to build a 2002 race car for a long time, know these little cars very well, and have inspected many fast 2002s.

Regards
Jacques

 

[Bertva]

Jacques

I took some photos over the weekend of the prospective donor car some of which can be seen hopefully this will give you a better idea of what Iam looking at and an estimated value of the car. The only traces of rust are very small amount at the 1 indicator lens and rust about the size if a R2 coin on the outer door panels and the sill just below the A post.














Regards


Bert

 

[Carbon]

Hey Bert,

From the vin I can see it is most likely a '69 model, the 756th RHD 2002 built actually.
Rust is hard to evaluate, even for me, as the rust you see is fine, the rust you don't is what bites you.
Rust on the doors can easily be fixed(if you find welding easy) with plain sheet metal(0.8 mm on the door skins).
Rust on the fender behind the indicator is very common, and if it is not too far gone, also easy to fix, and a replacement fender is about R850(without shipping) if you don't mind importing.
The sills are a bit tricky to shape yourself but it can be done, you also need to drill the MANY spot welds out and cut both sides to remove the old. You can buy new sills for about R350 a side, I would say that is the easiest.

This car might have the early type rear subframe and diff, if so, you might want to swap it out for a later type subframe as it has better geometry for the track, but the early type diffs are known to be bullet proof though.

If you decide to buy and build the car I offer my extra set of hands if you ever need them. I love these cars.

I would say that car is worth about R10 000 - R15 000 in running condition.
This car would make a great track car with a few modifications and a bit of repairs.

Regards
Jacques