The Definitive Alignment Guide for your E36

gconry18

///Member
From e36-tech.com (I take no credit for this)

Original Thread: http://www.e36-tech.com/forum/the-definitive-alignment-guide-for-your-e36-2102.html

Synced the info with Updated Guide Here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12923420&postcount=1[/SIZE]

<b>This information applies to all E36 chassis (except the 318ti, and Z3/M Coupe as the rear suspension is from the E30).<br />
This information also applies to all E46 chassis cars.</b><br />

With so many posts asking about how to get the car aligned, what shops will align the car, what are the right specs, and why do I have tire wear.....I think we need a definitive alignment guide here.<br />
<br />
***Update*** I've also put together a <a href="http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1394319" target="_blank">Definitive Suspension Guide for the E36 [M3]</a> mainly geared towards novice/intermediate drivers wanting to upgrade their suspension for autox/track/DD.<br />
<br />
<b>Q. What is the Stock E36 Alignment Adjustability?</b><br />
A: A stock E36 has the following adjustments - front toe, rear toe and rear camber.<br />
<br />
<b>Q. Can only certain shops align my E36?</b><br />
A: There is nothing special about aligning your E36. Now, aligning your E36 per the manual maybe (because of adding weights to car). But the factory specs are terrible and you can forget about them. <br />

<br />
<b>Q. Is it mandatory to add weights to the car when doing aligment?</b><br />
A. No. Even though the factory manual says to add weights in different locations, it is not absolutely necessary and will have a rather small effect on your alignment. You can add weights per the manual, or [recommended] you can add weight in the driver seat only to approximate your own weight, or you can add no weights [not recommended for best results]. <br />
<br />
<b>Q: Can I just take my car into a shop and ask to get it aligned?</b><br />
A: Only if you dont care about performance and tire wear.<br />
<br />
<b>Q: What the hell does that mean?</b><br />
A: If you bought an E36 M3, you obviously are looking for performance (or if you bought it for image, status, pimping, flossing, hardparking, etc, please GTFO! <img src="http://images.bimmerforums.com/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />). The BMW factory specs care nothing for performance or tire wear, only for safety and a low # of lawsuits. YES I AM SAYING THAT THE BMW FACTORY SPECS WILL NOT ONLY GIVE YOU POOR HANDLING AND PERFORMANCE, IT MAY ALSO WEAR OUT YOUR TIRES PREMATURELY.<br />
<br />

<b>Q: Ok, so what is a good performance alignment for the street with good tire wear?</b><br />
A: Here are the specs:<br />
<br />
<b><u>Front</u><br />
Camber: -2.5 deg (per side)<br />
Toe: 0 </b> (or 0.10 to 0.20 deg total toe in for mostly highway driving)<br />
<br />
<b><u>Rear</u><br />
Camber: -1.5 to -2 deg (per side)<br />

Toe: 0.20 total toe in </b>(IIRC this is 1/8&quot; total toe in)<br />
<br />
<b>Q: Can I get a good Performance Alignment for the Street with stock adjustments?</b><br />
A: NO! You can not get a good performance alignment for the street with a bone stock E36 M3, or even with a modified suspension, without front camber adjustment . You need some form of front camber adjustment that doesn't come stock. <br />
<br />
<b>Q: Why do I need front camber adjustment?</b><br />
A: Here is the short explanation (long explanation explained later)...your M3 came from the factory with an alignment that gives the rear tires more grip than the front. This means, when you are going around a turn (say an off ramp) and you are at the limits (tires are squealing), your front tires are giving up and the car does not turn. That is much safer than if the rear tires gave up first and you are now spinning around. But when the front tires give up long before the rear tires, you are giving up a lot of cornering ability vs. a car that all 4 tires give up at the same time. And a car that wont turn feels like crap.<br />
<br />
<b>Q: How do I change my front camber, and how much will it cost?</b><br />

A: Here are the options:<br />
<br />
<b>Option #1: GOOD<br />
Install shims at lower strut mounts </b><br />
- ($0.10 to $25) <br />
- easy to install<br />
- gain about -1 deg. camber (about -2 deg total per side)<br />
- may have tire clearance issues with coilovers (wheel spacers can fix this if necessary)<br />
- need longer strut bolts<br />

- camber adjustable only by changing shim (and/or washer) thickness<br />
This was copied from Ligero's post:<br />
Camber change - shim thickness in mm<br />
0.5 deg - 1.16mm<br />
1.0 deg - 2.63mm<br />
1.5 deg - 4.00mm (just for reference, not recommended)<br />
2.0 deg - 5.44mm (just for reference, <b>do not use</b>)<br />

2.5 deg - 6.81mm (just for reference, <b>do not use</b>)<br />
- <a href="http://store.bimmerworld.com/shared...=BtoC&amp;Count1=7457911&amp;Count2=924598336" target="_blank">Link to Bimmerworld - Search for: E36 Front Camber Shim Kit</a> bimmerworld sells a shim kit (aluminum sheet, not washer) that allows for more precision<br />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/joenationwide/lowerstrutmount.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Option #2: BETTER<br />
Swapped 96+ M3 upper strut mounts</b><br />
- (free if you have a 96-99 M3, or about $75 used on bf.c)<br />

- relatively easy to install<br />
- gain about -2 deg. camber (about -2.75 deg total per side 95 M3s, 96+ M3s will gain more ~3.3 deg per side)<br />
- camber not adjustable (what you get is what you get)<br />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/joenationwide/upperstrutmount.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Option #3: BEST<br />
Vorshlag Camber/Caster plates</b><br />
- ($380 shipped IIRC)<br />
- relatively easy install<br />

- gain up to -3 deg. camber from stock (range of -1 to -4 deg total per side on avg [95s sometimes only up to -3.2])<br />
- lower stack height, allows for safer lowering of car (when using coilovers)<br />
- will likely lower front end 0.5&quot;<br />
- 3 way caster adjustability<br />
- <a href="http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=0_1_4_155&amp;products_id=28" target="_blank">Link to Vorshlag Camber/Caster Plates</a><br />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/joenationwide/vorshlagplates.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
Hanchey/Fair, you mind if I put this here? <img src="http://images.bimmerforums.com/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" /><br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Q: How much negative camber is safe to run on the street? </b><br />

A: Up to -3 deg per side is safe to run on the street, but you will likely see some inner tire wear over time. (I used to run -3.4 deg camber per side on the street, with about 0.20 total toe OUT, and I got inner tire wear...about 2/32 more than the mid-outside of the tire). Now I run -2.5 deg camber per side and 0 toe on the street, and max out my camber plates negative at the track only.<br />
<br />
<b>Q: Wont too much negative camber kill my tires?</b><br />
A: Negative camber does not kill tires. Negative camber plus excessive toe (in or out) causes inner tire wear. Toe (in or out) in effect forces the car to &quot;drag&quot; the tire down the road, where 0 toe lets the tire roll down the road. Make sense? Negative camber will cause the tire to roll on the inside of the tire, but negative camber plus excessive toe will drag the inside of the tire down the road causing bad inner tire wear.<br />
<br />
<b>Q: So why are the insides of my rear tires worn after I got a factory alignment?</b><br />
A: Because factory specs call for lots of negative camber and LOTS of toe in. Very safe but bad for tire life. (Another cause for bad rear tire wear is worn out trailing arm bushings (RTABs) giving you dynamic toe changes.)<br />
<br />
<b>Part II</b><br />

<br />
<b>Q. How does camber affect performance?</b><br />
A. To maximize cornering force from your tires, the tire must be square on the road <u>during a corner</u> to achieve max grip. If your car had zero camber (all tires square to the road when driving straight), as soon as you turn, the body will roll to the outside, and the outer tires will roll only on the outsides of the tires. Thats why if you ever drove a car with stock alignment hard in turns, you'll see the outsides of the tires worn.<br />
<br />
<b>Q. Why does the M3 need more camber in the front?</b><br />
A. Because of the M3's suspension geometry. Simply put, as the car rolls in a turn, the outside wheels' suspension compresses (makes sense right?). The rear suspension was designed to gain negative camber as it compresses. So as the body rolls, the tire does not roll over as much as the car's body roll, maximizing the tire's contact patch. The front suspension is different, it does <u>not</u> gain significant negative camber as it compresses (during body roll in a corner), and therefore allows the tire to roll over to the outside edge, minimizing traction. This is why you must give the front end more negative camber to begin with. (Another very popular M3 trick is to run a stiff front sway bar, to limit the front body roll and maximize tire contact).<br />
<br />

<b>Q. What is a proper alignment procedure?</b><br />
A. Before you get your car aligned, you should know what will happen. The shop will put your car on an alignment rack, and put sensors on the 4 wheels. Some racks have a hard time with very low cars, or cars with spoilers (the Beissbarth rack). BMW suggests weighting the car in several areas. This is fine, but not necessary. At least, it would be good to place weights in the driver's seat equal to your weight. But again, not critical. <br />
The tech should start at the rear of the car, where he can adjust toe and camber. Rear Toe is adjusted by loosening the 3 bolts that hold the rear trailing arm to the chassis. If you push the arm inward, you get toe in, outward gets toe out. To adjust camber there is an eccentric bolt where the lower control arm bolts to the spindle (or wheel hub, correct term?). Anyway, once this is loose, it can be turned to adjust camber. It has a cam shaped profile, the base circle of the profile gives the most positive setting, the high end of the &quot;cam&quot; gives the most negative setting. Once the settings are reached, the tech will re-tighten the bolts, (if he's good, he'll do it carefully so as not to affect the positions when tightening, which you'll see when the numbers don't just quite match).<br />
In the front, all that can be &quot;adjusted&quot; is toe. This is just a matter of loosening the tie rod jam nut, and then adjusting the tie rod length, and then tightening down. If the car has camber plates, it can be adjusted at the top of the strut (under the hood) and the tech CAN do this.<br />
<br />
<b>Q. What should I do before I get an alignment?</b><br />

A. Know what you want from the car. Know what settings you want, or the shop will give you factory settings. Do you want the best performance with good tire wear? Then you need to address your front camber issue. Either shims, swap some 96+ strut hats, or camber plates. If the shop can install this for you, fine (it'll cost you), but don't assume they will. <br />
<br />
<b>Q. How do I find/install the shims?</b><br />
A. First you need to find shims. It is basically a washer, with a hole that fits over the lower strut bolt (at least 10mm IIRC). The washer should be about 0.10&quot; (2.54mm) thick. This should give about -1 deg more camber. Do not go much bigger, as you will lose thread engagement (the bolt will not go in all the way). A 0.10&quot; washer is perfectly safe. All you do is jack the front wheel off the ground, remove the wheel, and remove the 2 lower strut bolts. Then insert the shim between the strut and the spindle, and reinstall. (***Note*** This method will pull the tire closer to the strut and spring perch. If you have coilovers, you may need to run a 5mm spacer (or so) if the tire begins to rub the spring perch. Should not affect non/coilover cars.) <br />
<br />
<b>**EDIT**Updated 24Feb09**</b> Some have asked if it is possible to run a thicker washer [0.20&quot; (or about 5mm)] and purchase longer bolts for the lower strut mount. Theoretically you will gain approximately -2 deg camber (about the same as swapped strut hats), however, this will bring the tire even closer to the strut, and may make it difficult to run wider tires. I have not tried this. See Post <a href="http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15621269&amp;postcount=149" target="_blank">149</a> for the discussion. <br />

** Added Post 149 at the bottom ** - Gareth.

<br />
<b>Q. How do I find/install the 96+ upper strut mounts?</b><br />
A. If you have a 95 M3, you can find some used on bf.c. If you have a 96, 97, 98, or 99 M3 you already have these. These upper mounts or &quot;top hats&quot; are a steel plate with 3 studs to bolt to the shock tower, and a ball bearing in the center that holds the top of the strut shaft. You'll have to remove the entire spring/shock assembly on each side, and using a spring compressor to keep tension on the spring. Then you will need an impact tool to remove the top strut nut. Once the nut is off, you simply swap the strut hats from Left to Right, and reinstall. [It is a good idea to clean and repack the bearing before you install/re-install them]. You should have about -2.5 to -3 deg. camber. Don't forget to get an alignment afterwards.<br />
<br />
<b>Q. So why bother with camber plates?</b><br />
A. Camber plates give you the most camber, and it is always adjustable. Some people will max out their camber on track/autox, and then adjust it back to a milder setting for the street. (Personally I just leave it ***edit*13Jan10*** - I no longer &quot;just leave it&quot;. Now I switch between 2.5deg camber/0.10toe in for the street, and at the track I max out my camber plates giving me about -3.4deg camber/0.20 toe out per side). Also, most camber plates also allow for 2 different caster settings. (I wont go into this discussion, it is generally accepted to get as much caster as possible, but I've heard M3 drivers who prefer less caster, anyway....). Finally, I run Vorshlag camber plates because they have the lowest stack height (and a larger ball bearing center, for more info <a href="http://www.vorshlag.com" target="_blank">www.vorshlag.com</a>). This means that if you lower your car, it does not compress the strut as much so you have more travel (no bottoming out), and it lets me run my spring perch higher, more adjustment range for coilovers.<br />

<br />
<b>Q. How does toe affect performance?</b><br />
A. Toe behaves similar at either end of the car. Toe in will stabilize the car, making it track straight and not want to change direction. Toe out does the opposite, makes it twitchy, and want to change direction quickly. A car is more responsive with toe out, but less stable. <br />
FRONT Of CAR - Toe-out in the front lets the car turn in nicely, but may &quot;tramline&quot; down the road (finding grooves and irregularities and following them). Toe-in front makes the car hard to turn and want to &quot;push&quot; or understeer (BTW this is what BMW recommends!). <br />
REAR OF CAR - Toe-out in the rear is pretty dangerous for RWD cars, makes the car want to spin, especially under hard braking. Toe-in rear will keep the rear stable, and (here is the key) allow for you to put power down as early and as hard as possible without wheel spin. More is not always better, racers will always adjust these settings till they get it just right. For the street, the suggested settings will let you set-it-and-forget-it.<br />
<br />
<br />

<b>Q. What is a good track/autox alignment?</b><br />
A. Most track guys already know what to do here, but for general FYI, a good baseline is:<br />
<br />
<b><u>Front</u><br />
Camber: -3.5 deg per side<br />
Toe: 0 (0.10-0.20 total toe out for autox)<br />
<br />
<u>Rear</u><br />
Camber: -2.0 to -2.5 deg per side<br />
Toe: 0.20 total toe in </b>(IIRC this is 1/8&quot; total toe in)<br />

<br />
You'll notice it is just slightly more aggressive than a good street alignment. Any more than -3.0 deg camber and 0.10 toe (in or out) per side can lead to inner tire wear with lots of highway driving.<br />
Some race cars (on race tires) will run even more camber. For race cars, suspension and weight (and usually the track) always plays a role in alignment. <br />
<br />
Here is my car on street tires with -3.3 deg camber front, 0.10 total toe out, and -2.5 deg camber rear, 0.20 total toe in.<br />
Notice as the car rolls, the tires on the ground are square to the road.<br />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/joenationwide/sig05.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<br />
<b>***EDIT**Update May 2009***</b><br />
<br />
<b>Q. I have camber plates on my 95 M3, but I can only get -3.x degrees max. How do I get more neg camber up front?</b><br />

<br />
A. The 95 M3s (and possibly all pre 96 E36?) have a different front suspension geometry, and can not get as much camber as a 96+. So the solution is to run thin (approx 1mm thick) shims at the lower strut mount to gain an extra -0.5 to -1.0 deg of camber. Couple this with the camber plates, and you now have an adjustable range of up to approx. -4 deg camber. As mentioned above, the shims will bring the top of the tire closer to the strut/spring perch, so you may need to increase size of wheel spacer accordingly (probably no more than 5mm). <br />
<br />
The other option is to buy crash bolts that install in the longitudinally mounted bolt at the middle of the strut. This may offer up to an additional -0.3 degrees.<br />
<br />
Explanation: The 95 M3s have a different front spindle geometry than the 96+. Thats why the 96+ M3s tend to have a higher maximum negative camber when running camber plates. The reason is because the 96+ M3 spindles tilt the strut inboard farther than the 95 M3s, and is presumably why the 96+ strut hats are different than the 95+ hats. In stock position they provide less camber than the 95 mounts, but when swapped, they provide more camber. <br />
<br />
<b>Q. Why believe the author?</b><br />
A. You don't have to. I'm not part of a professional race team or anything. But I've done a lot of research, a lot of tuning, and a lot of listening to faster racers. I've had my M3 since 2004. Since then I've learned to develop and setup my M3 competitively for autox and track. In 2005 I was mid pack in my autox class. In 2007 I was beating (and getting beat by) national trophy winners. Also in 2007 I started doing time trials with NASA, and held track records at VIR Full and North Course (which will be improved upon!), and got 3rd place at Redline Time Attack - Summit Point (behind two superb BMW drivers). Also became a certified NASA Instructor Feb 2008. <br />
In 2010 I've won all but one NASA MA Time Trial events (I lost one to the Continental Challenge RRT E90 328) to claim 2010 NASA MA TTC Championship. I competed in the GRM Ultimate Track Car Challenge (and have since dropped 3 sec. from that time!). I am currently 0.18 sec. from VIR lap record and 0.8 sec from Summit Point lap record in TTC.<br />
I also drive my car on the street, and can't afford uneven tire wear. I DD, autox, and do track events all on the same tires, so they may not last more than a year, but they are usually worn evenly. I have worn tires unevenly, and it was because I was running the wrong alignment settings (usually too much toe!)<br />

<br />
More to come:<br />
<br />
??????? What else do you want to know???????</div>



This explains why my car understeers so much on the track.

Here is Post 149

Post 149 said:
Techniques discussed for fixed front negative camber gain (non-adjustable) are:<br />
1. Installing 96+M3 upper strut mounts, Left to Right side, Right to Left side. <br />
<br />
2. Install shims on two bottom strut mounting bolts. One limitation to shimming is the length of the bolt, but replacing the bolts with longer bolts was not addressed. Another limitation to maximum shim thickness is tire clearance. <br />
<br />
Lowering the overall strut height gives a negative camber gain, and I guess you'd need to account for this somehow in planning your adjustments. <br />
<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong>joenationwide</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=12923420#post12923420" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="http://images.bimmerforums.com/vb3images/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a>
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<div style="font-style:italic; font-size: 11px;" >*****<br />

<b>Q. How do I find/install the shims?</b><br />
A. First you need to find shims... about 0.10&quot; (2.54mm) thick...give about -1 deg camber... bigger will lose thread engagement, 0.10&quot; is perfectly safe... Insert the shim between the strut and the spindle... The tire will be closer to the strut and spring perch.</div>

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</div>But since we are looking for 2.5 deg. negative camber, this shim size is is insufficient alone. <br />
<br />

I found another thread with useful shim information:<a href="http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13066586#post13066586" target="_blank">Camber shims</a><br />
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Originally Posted by <strong>mariogto1968</strong>

<a href="showthread.php?p=13065880#post13065880" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="http://images.bimmerforums.com/vb3images/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a>
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<div style="font-style:italic; font-size: 11px;" >Hello, I have been running camber washers purchased from Kormans for 9 years. With 5mm (0.19&quot;) shims i get 2.8 neg. camber with car empty. With car weighted 3.1 neg. I just did a track alignment and added 1 more mm. total 6mm (0.23&quot;) giving it 3.3 neg on both front with my weight and instructors weight in car with 1/2 tank of fuel. This works out fine with 0 toe, no uneven tire wear. If tracking car set toe to 0 or very small amount of toe out. After tracking car we remove shims and toe goes to a slight toe in which is fine for the street. I have a 1995 M3 with M3 lightweight springs. car sits about a 1/3 lower than stock ride height. I have 1.7 neg camber WITHOUT shims, so 6mm in shims ads in about 1 1/2 degrees neg. camber. Check the clearance on your wheel and tire inside to your strut. I do not have any rubbing problems BUT 6mm. is the max. i can run without clearance problems. I am running 235/40/17 on BBS 17by 8 wheels all around with 38 offset. YOU MUST USE LONGER BOLTS WHEN USING SHIMS. MINE CAME WITH WASHER KIT FROM KORMANS. Hope that helps you out, Tony</div>

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</div>Tony brings up wheel offset and diameter, which makes a difference regarding shims and their effect on strut/wheel clearance. <br />

<br />
Using your own parts seems easy enough. Looking around, the Bimmerworld shim kit gives 0.21&quot; (5.33mm) maximum shim using the entire kit. They do supply longer bolts. Their shims are aluminum where I would prefer hardened steel. The Korman kit P/N 31062036 is hardened washers and longer bolts, which sounds like a simple hardware store approach. <br />
<br />
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Originally Posted by <strong>wheresmym3</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=15621339#post15621339" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="http://images.bimmerforums.com/vb3images/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a>
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<div style="font-style:italic; font-size: 11px;" >I even matched the thickness of the washers up in the store so they are all consistent... washer thicknesses do vary.</div>

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</div>Good point!<br />
<br />
My questions: <br />
A. By using longer bolts and 5mm (0.19&quot;) washers, do you get enough negative camber without involving changing the upper strut mounts on a 1995 M3?<br />
I don't want to buy someone's used upper strut mounts and disassemble my struts entirely if I can avoid it. <br />
B. Does anyone know the bolt specs required? (Grade 8) I can pull one and bring it in, but if someone knows, feel free to share.</div>
 
A

Afterburner

Guest
:clap: Thanks alot. This is going to be of great help. I'm tired of all the b/s :cursin: you get from the different alignment place here in sunny Durban. Now I can align the car at home. Are there any reference points on the body to use to centralise the wheel alingments so that the car doesn't run like a crab?
 

gconry18

///Member
Afterburner said:
:clap: Thanks alot. This is going to be of great help. I'm tired of all the b/s :cursin: you get from the different alignment place here in sunny Durban. Now I can align the car at home. Are there any reference points on the body to use to centralise the wheel alingments so that the car doesn't run like a crab?

Only do the front camber yourself (If you have an e36). Do not align the rest yourself.

A place like autoquip allows you to specify your own alignment specs and they will give you a printout of a before and after (make sure you request one).
 

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
you can get more camber out of the front of the e36 with the shims if you fit wheel spacers on the wheels...

this is what it looks like:

bmwcamberkitsmall.jpg

chamber1.jpg


you need to use 12.9 grade bolts and dont worry about it stressing something people have been using this forever without any negitive effects

an idea of how much chamber you can get on a slightly lowered car...
1 shim gave 2.5 degrees
2 shims gave 3.5 degrees
3 shims gave 4.5 degrees

i dont know what size the shims and bolts are...
 

gconry18

///Member
freerider said:
Thanks for this Gaz, I shall be ordering myself some emfree strut mounts from the US of A

Dont. Get 10.9 Grade bolts and hardened washers from a hardware store such as http://www.mrboltandnut.co.za/

The kits that places sell arnt even as strong as that and it will save you the shipping.

moranor said:
you can get more camber out of the front of the e36 with the shims if you fit wheel spacers on the wheels...

You do not want more that -2.5 on the street if you like your tires.

i dont know what size the shims and bolts are...

M12 bolts, 20mm or 25mm depending on how many washers you are using.
 

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
2.5 is a good camber for a road car... the write up says you can only get 1* extra with shims and bolts, but you can get alot more with spacers if you want and you will probably want to space the wheels out a bit anyway because the top of them with me more inset with the new camber...
 

gconry18

///Member
moranor said:
2.5 is a good camber for a road car... the write up says you can only get 1* extra with shims and bolts, but you can get alot more with spacers if you want and you will probably want to space the wheels out a bit anyway because the top of them with me more inset with the new camber...

I suppose you missed the big message at the bottom of post 1
 

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
i dont see anything wrong with making the information more easily available here... i wish the e46 was this easy :(
 

gconry18

///Member
moranor said:
i dont see anything wrong with making the information more easily available here... i wish the e46 was this easy :(

Will Redo my orig post with the new info asap


Updated Guide Done
 

calypso

///Member
Just remember, if you gonna be in the strut towers, its probably worthwhile that you install the strut tower reinforcement plates. Towers front and back are weak spots on these cars. Especially the rear ones.

MTY5MDVfcA==.png


Part 15 - I think they were about R100 each from the dealer
Part number: 31 31 2 489 795
 

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
damn... i think i should do something like this for the e46 when i have the chance :) this is an awesome thread...
 

freerider

Honorary ///Member
E36's are awesome :)

I'm loving the fact that there is so much to do :) It just adds that extra excitement to my weekends.
 

Fordkoppie

///Member
I would not put all my faith in this guy.
He suggests that you should fit thicker front anti roll bar in the front only to eliminate front tyre "rolling" and therefore decrease understeer. Well, that is just the opposite of what you should do. Fitting a stiffer rear anti roll bar will decrease understeer.
I am not saying everything is BS, but I wouldn’t announce everything he stated as the gospel truth.
 

gconry18

///Member
freerider said:
I think this thread calls for a detailed DIY correspondant thread :)

Will do the front camber shim install when I am back from my holiday away.

Fordkoppie said:
I would not put all my faith in this guy.
He suggests that you should fit thicker front anti roll bar in the front only to eliminate front tyre "rolling" and therefore decrease understeer. Well, that is just the opposite of what you should do. Fitting a stiffer rear anti roll bar will decrease understeer.
I am not saying everything is BS, but I wouldn’t announce everything he stated as the gospel truth.

Proof? And I suppose you are speaking about an E36 from experience?
 

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
doesn't thicker = stiffer most of the time?

fitting a too stiff/thick bar will decrease the traction like most suspension tuning its best to do moderate changes to not run into trouble...
 

Fordkoppie

///Member
gconry18 said:



Fordkoppie said:
I would not put all my faith in this guy.
He suggests that you should fit thicker front anti roll bar in the front only to eliminate front tyre "rolling" and therefore decrease understeer. Well, that is just the opposite of what you should do. Fitting a stiffer rear anti roll bar will decrease understeer.
I am not saying everything is BS, but I wouldn’t announce everything he stated as the gospel truth.

Proof? And I suppose you are speaking about an E36 from experience?



Proof about what?
You obviously know nothing about basic suspension setups.
It is common knowledge that increasing stiffness in the anti roll bar at one end will give you a little more grip to a certain degree on the other. Increasing the stiffness in the front only will result in more understeer. But don’t take my word for it. You obviously know everything.
Oh….. and these are Americans, which by the way only really know how to eat McDonalds.
BTW – I have driven MY std. ex e36 M3 coupe to its max around a track with lap counts equaling endurance levels. If you cant get a std e36 M3 to oversteer by provoking it, you dont know how to drive it.


 

gconry18

///Member
Fordkoppie said:
Proof about what?
You obviously know nothing about basic suspension setups.
It is common knowledge that increasing stiffness in the anti roll bar at one end will give you a little more grip to a certain degree on the other. Increasing the stiffness in the front only will result in more understeer. But don’t take my word for it. You obviously know everything.
Oh….. and these are Americans, which by the way only really know how to eat McDonalds.
BTW – I have driven MY std. ex e36 M3 coupe to its max around a track with lap counts equaling endurance levels. If you cant get a std e36 M3 to oversteer by provoking it, you dont know how to drive it.

Little bit of an @sshole today are we. I'm sure we are very lucky to have a guy like you on the forum :puke:.
 
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