M340i vs X3 M Comp pre-lci vs F90 M5

brentbmw

Member
Hi guys,

The wife and I are packing up in the UK and coming home to SA next month. Turns out it was not the land of milk and honey we were promised...but won't say anything more about that.

We have a budget of about R1100000 for a new used car and because my business operates from home mileage per year will probably only be 6-8k km.

We have narrowed it down to a M340i, X3 M Comp pre-LCI and a F90 M5.

M5 would be a 2018 model with around 50k km on, X3 M would be a 2019/2020 and then M340i would be a 2021/22.

My head says M340i would be the right choice, reliable B58 platform, cheaper to run than X3 M or M5.

M5 - Heart says M5 as you only live once...certified pre-owned and will get rod bearings and coolant reservoir replaced with after market ones just before the warranty expires, will change oil ecedy 8000km. But for any that own F90 M5s how are the running costs etc? I plan to budget R5k a month for potential repairs/maintenance. However, the idea of running a twin turbo V8 out of warranty the following year is making me stress a bit...I could afford a catastrophic engine failure if it came down to it without going bankrupt, but it's just such a gross waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere.

X3 M - Great family car size and loads of practicality but I hear the S58 in the pre-lci X3 M is a bit turbo laggy, for those who own one is it that laggy that it's a problem or can you simply put the trans/engine in sports mode to get around this when driving around town? We currently drive an X3 M40i in the UK and it's fast, competent but it's just not fast enough to scratch that performance car itch.

M340i - Light, fast and more modern inside than the X3 M and F90 M5 with the newer iDrive. It'll have warranty left too...

Which would you guys choose and why? Any opinions would be highly appreciated.
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
Hi guys,

The wife and I are packing up in the UK and coming home to SA next month. Turns out it was not the land of milk and honey we were promised...but won't say anything more about that.

We have a budget of about R1100000 for a new used car and because my business operates from home mileage per year will probably only be 6-8k km.

We have narrowed it down to a M340i, X3 M Comp pre-LCI and a F90 M5.

M5 would be a 2018 model with around 50k km on, X3 M would be a 2019/2020 and then M340i would be a 2021/22.

My head says M340i would be the right choice, reliable B58 platform, cheaper to run than X3 M or M5.

M5 - Heart says M5 as you only live once...certified pre-owned and will get rod bearings and coolant reservoir replaced with after market ones just before the warranty expires, will change oil ecedy 8000km. But for any that own F90 M5s how are the running costs etc? I plan to budget R5k a month for potential repairs/maintenance. However, the idea of running a twin turbo V8 out of warranty the following year is making me stress a bit...I could afford a catastrophic engine failure if it came down to it without going bankrupt, but it's just such a gross waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere.

X3 M - Great family car size and loads of practicality but I hear the S58 in the pre-lci X3 M is a bit turbo laggy, for those who own one is it that laggy that it's a problem or can you simply put the trans/engine in sports mode to get around this when driving around town? We currently drive an X3 M40i in the UK and it's fast, competent but it's just not fast enough to scratch that performance car itch.

M340i - Light, fast and more modern inside than the X3 M and F90 M5 with the newer iDrive. It'll have warranty left too...

Which would you guys choose and why? Any opinions would be highly appreciated.

Buy the M5 with plan if you can.

Not sure how they stack up vs. each other maintenance wise. But I've run a V8TT out of plan for a few years: My F10 M5 was sold with 145000 on it. I owned it for 7 years. New owner took it to 175000ish. It was modded with Bootmod3, Supersprint downpipes and the factory Akrapovic exhaust. It was still on the original motor and gearbox and I'd had a clutch change and gearbox service in there as well (around 90). The link in my signature will take you to common issues which were largely related to the coolant pipes (not a catastrophic issue - just annoying). Most of the engine issues/common faults are resolved on the F90. Rods/Rod bearings tend to only present issues when modded. That isn't to say there hasn't been the odd seemingly random engine failure. Coolant tank was a recall. I had mine done on plan before it was a recall. Early 2018 cars required an injector change (recall I was issued I think). Mine is a later 2019 and was not part of the recall (I checked). There were some annoying clicking noises on full lock but there are now repair kits for this that address it and are covered by plan. Most if not all should have had this done by now. Mine is on 50 ish thousand km now with plan expiring next year - I don't intend to sell it as I don't intend to buy the new one and there isn't really anything else that I want so I will probably extend the plan another year.

Bear in mind there are a whole host of VERY meh M5s that are available for sale. It was the same with the F10 when the cars started coming off plan. Just check and double check for issues, signs of repair, signs of neglect etc whether the car has history or not.

X3M comp is good - wanted to get one for the Mrs. This should be more firmly 'in plan' and you can have some time to get used to the running costs.

Once you have an M5 there's no going back LOL... and also no going forward unless you win the powerball because replacements are much more expensive.

M340 is less likely to give you sleepless nights worrying about phantom costs/noises/failures. It is a tried and tested proven platform. Newer iDrive is a subjective thing. I can't stand any of the new BMW interiors and setups... but I am also in the minority it seems. As long as it has carplay I don't really care.
 

VinceM

Well-known member
Like the honesty and authenticity.

Ditto on above post from Llew.

Ranking as follows:

1) M5 with plan
a great all rounder, plus better appointed interior, power and better sound track.

2) X3 M
has better utility but remains a SAV…a diesel seems better for anything SAV/SUV. Have a friend that sold it for an X5 diesel (given his specific reasons and has other M cars)

3) M340i


You won’t go wrong with either one.
usual checks and balances should be done.

All the best and welcome back home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

jld010

Active member
F90 tops the list here if you want to own the road..only drawback and it's a big one...you wont feel satisfied in any other vehicle ever again...test drove a Comp..not neccessary to buy one.the standard version is pretty much the same thing. 120km/h for a S63 on that chassis feels like 80km/h in a 3 series.

X3 M..great engine..dont need a family as a requisite for this SUV M3.

M340..great daily driver..faster than they say..better than a S4 or C43. You dont want to go G8x?
 

brentbmw

Member
Thanks for the replies guys!

And thanks for the welcome back home too, really missed SA, just over week left and will be back on SA soil!

I went through your F10 thread Llew, it looks like the old saying "look after your car and it will look after you" rings true here. I am pretty pedantic when it comes to maintenance so will make sure the car is well looked after. Glad to hear most of the S63's faults have been ironed out in the F90.

Reading your F10 thread gave me more peace of mind with the M5 and it will be our first choice but will get one CPO from BMW with at least a year warranty left or won't buy at all and look for a CPO X3 M, with M340i as last option. I just thought, with our driving profile, the only time we drive is when we want to as we will both work from home, so the M5 is making more sense because there is no need for a commute too and from work so it won't be doing a ton of mileage.

Thanks for letting me know the injector recall, I will be sure to check it out and see if it is done on whichever one we find.

I have found one at BMW Centurion and the salesman said they renewed the plan to run until Aug 2025 and it has a FSH at BMW will need to go and check it out in person thoroughly first obviously...but looks promising if it isn't sold by the time we get home. https://www.autotrader.co.za/car-fo...228?vf=2&db=1&s360=0&so=1&pl=1&pq=0&pr=5&po=1

In terms of finances and what it cost you to maintain your F10 and now F90, would you reckon the R5k per month "Pillow" would be adequate?
 

Cameron_N

New member
All good choices!
Best thing you can do is listen to Llew :). Better still, go read his very detailed threads on his experiences of ownership of F10 & G90 M5's. Turns out Llew and I have had similar ownership choices, right down to colours (alpine white f10 & marina bay blue g90). Can't go wrong with an M5, it's so much more car than you can imagine! If well maintained, they are amazing cars. I had my f10 for 7 years with little to no issues - motor plan covered front & rear suspension bushes in year 6. G90 has had the coolant tank replaced but all else is pretty low maintenance, especially if in plan.

I've already extended the plan for another year (mileage is 50xxxkms) however I am in the process of selling the car as I have a few other projects I am busy with. I've literally dragged my feet on getting an ad up for the past 6 months but I've somewhat made peace with the fact the time is now right. There is an ad up on auto trader already if you're already looking :D
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
Thanks for the replies guys!

And thanks for the welcome back home too, really missed SA, just over week left and will be back on SA soil!

I went through your F10 thread Llew, it looks like the old saying "look after your car and it will look after you" rings true here. I am pretty pedantic when it comes to maintenance so will make sure the car is well looked after. Glad to hear most of the S63's faults have been ironed out in the F90.

Reading your F10 thread gave me more peace of mind with the M5 and it will be our first choice but will get one CPO from BMW with at least a year warranty left or won't buy at all and look for a CPO X3 M, with M340i as last option. I just thought, with our driving profile, the only time we drive is when we want to as we will both work from home, so the M5 is making more sense because there is no need for a commute too and from work so it won't be doing a ton of mileage.

Thanks for letting me know the injector recall, I will be sure to check it out and see if it is done on whichever one we find.

I have found one at BMW Centurion and the salesman said they renewed the plan to run until Aug 2025 and it has a FSH at BMW will need to go and check it out in person thoroughly first obviously...but looks promising if it isn't sold by the time we get home. https://www.autotrader.co.za/car-fo...228?vf=2&db=1&s360=0&so=1&pl=1&pq=0&pr=5&po=1

In terms of finances and what it cost you to maintain your F10 and now F90, would you reckon the R5k per month "Pillow" would be adequate?

I think your use case will be very similar to mine. My wife is permanently home based (Projects all overseas) and I work largely remotely with only the occasional visit to a client and almost never during peak times. Fuel and mileage are not really factors.

I'd say if you can save R5K a month regularly you won't have any issues an F90 at low mileage. Even better if you have a bit of a buffer already and keep adding to it. The costs aren't really sort of monthly like that - more like you will pay nothing for 6 months then have a 10 - 20K thing to take care of (Just as an example like diff/gearbox services, the odd bushing - eventually the EDC dampers which are big ticket items when the time eventually comes). That said, there is nothing on mine that motorplan has covered that would have bankrupted me. The only one that didn't makes sense was the light change which I felt was unnecessary when you could have done a sub-5K repair by replacing the module. Anyway they paid so I didn't complain LOL.

I am very interested to hear your UK experience some time because it was one of the places that I felt I could make home 15 or so years ago (and I experienced all the seasons over visits!). I very nearly did land something permanent there about 4 or 5 years back but Brexit ended that plan. Looking at the state of the country (at least what the media shows) I am a little relieved it all turned out this way and that I never left. I haven't become much more positive about SA's outlook. It's more that I've realised nowhere is really any better (for me personally anyway - prospects and resources vary for everyone and I know people that left dire situations in SA and have been more successful in NZ or Australia than they were here for instance). It will probably change in future but for now it is what it is.
 

brentbmw

Member
I think your use case will be very similar to mine. My wife is permanently home based (Projects all overseas) and I work largely remotely with only the occasional visit to a client and almost never during peak times. Fuel and mileage are not really factors.

I'd say if you can save R5K a month regularly you won't have any issues an F90 at low mileage. Even better if you have a bit of a buffer already and keep adding to it. The costs aren't really sort of monthly like that - more like you will pay nothing for 6 months then have a 10 - 20K thing to take care of (Just as an example like diff/gearbox services, the odd bushing - eventually the EDC dampers which are big ticket items when the time eventually comes). That said, there is nothing on mine that motorplan has covered that would have bankrupted me. The only one that didn't makes sense was the light change which I felt was unnecessary when you could have done a sub-5K repair by replacing the module. Anyway they paid so I didn't complain LOL.

I am very interested to hear your UK experience some time because it was one of the places that I felt I could make home 15 or so years ago (and I experienced all the seasons over visits!). I very nearly did land something permanent there about 4 or 5 years back but Brexit ended that plan. Looking at the state of the country (at least what the media shows) I am a little relieved it all turned out this way and that I never left. I haven't become much more positive about SA's outlook. It's more that I've realised nowhere is really any better (for me personally anyway - prospects and resources vary for everyone and I know people that left dire situations in SA and have been more successful in NZ or Australia than they were here for instance). It will probably change in future but for now it is what it is.
Definitely yeah, and that's why I was thinking of the M5 because when the wife or I will use the car it will be to enjoy it. It will be used for going to the gym/dropping little one off at school but that's like 5km a day only. I already have a cushion of about R90k set aside for repairs/maintenance, will just be adding to that, and hey who knows maybe I get a gem of an M5 and then I don't have to dig too deep into it and when I sell it I will be smiling, if it goes the other way at least I am prepared.

In terms of the UK wow...where to start, let me just say thank your lucky stars you didn't come at this time! Also this is just my personal experience having come here in 2022, many others have come and made a success out of it, I take my hat off to them. It cost us over R600k to get here which we have now lost...but it is school fees and the life experience was worth it, it made us appreciate our sunny South Africa. My cousins who are all older than me (they left SA 20 years ago) painted a picture of this utopia where you can get a job so easily, buy a house so easily, grass is so green, the NHS was wonderful etc etc. And granted 20 years ago this was very much the case, the country had it's issues but fiscally it was in a very good spot back then and it everything was functioning excellently. Fast forward to 2008 and the global financial crisis and things started going downhill from there, wage growth stagnated and is still stagnating today, but cost of living is insanely high, as are asset prices. All of my cousins bought houses back then and could very comfortably do so, now though it is almost impossible for anyone who doesn't have generational wealth to get on the property ladder, least of all immigrants like myself who have no financial history here.

For example we are renting a 65sqm 2 bedroom place that to put plainly is kak, simply just kak, something you wouldn't even put the family member you can't stand in, it's old, moldy, no cupboards, neglected, stuck in the 70's, it's really just like one of those places you would look at and be like that meme of the dude saying ewwwww brother ewwwwww is the best way I can describe it, and this was the 15th place I looked at after getting here, and it was the only one willing to take us, we had to put a year up front in rent too just because of the insane demand for property in the UK, this also leads to landlords neglecting properties because they know demand is so insanely high. And we pay with all bills included R35k per month approx, and this is near Manchester...it would be double that for something similar in London areas. The owner is now selling this place as we are leaving and put it on the market for R5.8m starting...It is the same all over the country, for something remotely the same as what one is used to in middle class SA, you know yard, garage, detached, 3-4 bedroom you are looking at R12m plus. We had a 3 bedroom house in SA in a decent area, nothing fancy, and the 2 bed flat we had on the property was bigger than the place we rent here...

Then it's the cost of living...I do amateur bodybuilding so eat a lot of meat, it is SO expensive, chicken is a bit more expensive than SA, but red meat, you looking at R6-700/kg for rump etc. I got here at the worst possible time too with their record high inflation, we started out at around R18k/pm for groceries, we're now pulling around R27k/pm for groceries, it's bleeding us dry! And I am not exaggerating these figures...you can get away with buying from budget stores but then you getting unhealthy b-grade kak.

And then it's all the small quality of life things we take for granted as South African's, like being able to go and have a meal as a family, we did it once here and the bill was R4k for 4 ppl for a drink each, main and dessert, needless to say that was the first and the last time. You looking at R500-600 per pizza if you try get takeaways. We rather just made our own food. Granted my experience is skewed because my wife and I earn in US dollar, so I am constantly comparing dollars to pounds to rands and I am trapped in the mentality of "This would have cost Rxx in SA" so maybe it would have been different had we been earning local currency.

This is where I come back to asset prices...the average family home here is £275000 for a semi-detached 3 bedroom place around 80-90sqm. Currently house prices are 9 times annual average salary (my data might be a bit incorrect by now but this was when I last checked) and this is without considering the insanely high cost of living. So for the average family, so say even if you are earning £70000 a year between the 2 of you which is higher than the average, owning anything other than a tiny hovel is a dream, because one can just never save enough to get a deposit, and the asset prices inflate at such a tempo that by the time you have a deposit the goal post is moved again. If we had stayed here we would have NEVER owned a decent house. Look if you come over as a specialist doctor or something highly qualified then things would be different, but then consider one's lifestyle in SA then in comparison. £70000 sounds like a lot but once all the deductions go off there's not much left at the end of the day and that's with ZERO luxuries.

And then the healthcare...lets hope the NHI never gets implemented in SA because the NHS here is such an abortion, you can NEVER get a doctors appointment when you need one, you must call at 8am and by the time you get through you're number 95 in the queue. And when you actually do get to see a doctor it's for 15min and if you try discuss a second problem they say "no no no, you were booked for one ailment, if you want to discuss a second thing you need to make a double booking". And then referral times if you have to see a specialist.... For example my wife has kidney issues which were diagnosed here in 2022, she got a referral back then to a nephrologist...she is STILL waiting. I buggered my knee up when sprinting for cardio in 2022, I got a referral in Jan 2023 from the doc to see a physio...literally only got seen in Feb 2024. We really took our medical aid for granted in SA.

My wife started suffering with depression too from being here because all her family are in SA, and the lifestyle here is very insular, you're stuck at home most of the year, we are used to being outside, braais etc etc. The culture is also SO different if you don't integrate (I always say it might as well be Japan it is that different), and with us working at home we never really had to integrate into the local communities etc. Not saying the culture difference is a good or a bad thing, just so different to what we are used to back home, i'll use an example like that unsaid respect of calling older people Uncle or Auntie out of respect in SA, here that is just absent. The kids are also just on another level...demons incarnate compared to our kids back in SA.

We were going to stay until citizenship via ancestry visa (6 years) but we got to a stage between my wifes depression and me looking at the financial writing on the wall...we would never be able to own any house other than a box in our lifetime, there is no decent health care, cost of living is INSANE compared to SA, so we made the decision to head back, in SA we can buy a decent place in the next 3 to 4 years and have a much better quality of life. It makes me think of a saying someone said once can't put my finger on who...but it was "Why live like a poor person in North if you can live like a King in the South"

Please let me know if you have any other questions about the UK, this is just the tip of the iceberg!
 

TBP88

Well-known member
Definitely yeah, and that's why I was thinking of the M5 because when the wife or I will use the car it will be to enjoy it. It will be used for going to the gym/dropping little one off at school but that's like 5km a day only. I already have a cushion of about R90k set aside for repairs/maintenance, will just be adding to that, and hey who knows maybe I get a gem of an M5 and then I don't have to dig too deep into it and when I sell it I will be smiling, if it goes the other way at least I am prepared.

In terms of the UK wow...where to start, let me just say thank your lucky stars you didn't come at this time! Also this is just my personal experience having come here in 2022, many others have come and made a success out of it, I take my hat off to them. It cost us over R600k to get here which we have now lost...but it is school fees and the life experience was worth it, it made us appreciate our sunny South Africa. My cousins who are all older than me (they left SA 20 years ago) painted a picture of this utopia where you can get a job so easily, buy a house so easily, grass is so green, the NHS was wonderful etc etc. And granted 20 years ago this was very much the case, the country had it's issues but fiscally it was in a very good spot back then and it everything was functioning excellently. Fast forward to 2008 and the global financial crisis and things started going downhill from there, wage growth stagnated and is still stagnating today, but cost of living is insanely high, as are asset prices. All of my cousins bought houses back then and could very comfortably do so, now though it is almost impossible for anyone who doesn't have generational wealth to get on the property ladder, least of all immigrants like myself who have no financial history here.

For example we are renting a 65sqm 2 bedroom place that to put plainly is kak, simply just kak, something you wouldn't even put the family member you can't stand in, it's old, moldy, no cupboards, neglected, stuck in the 70's, it's really just like one of those places you would look at and be like that meme of the dude saying ewwwww brother ewwwwww is the best way I can describe it, and this was the 15th place I looked at after getting here, and it was the only one willing to take us, we had to put a year up front in rent too just because of the insane demand for property in the UK, this also leads to landlords neglecting properties because they know demand is so insanely high. And we pay with all bills included R35k per month approx, and this is near Manchester...it would be double that for something similar in London areas. The owner is now selling this place as we are leaving and put it on the market for R5.8m starting...It is the same all over the country, for something remotely the same as what one is used to in middle class SA, you know yard, garage, detached, 3-4 bedroom you are looking at R12m plus. We had a 3 bedroom house in SA in a decent area, nothing fancy, and the 2 bed flat we had on the property was bigger than the place we rent here...

Then it's the cost of living...I do amateur bodybuilding so eat a lot of meat, it is SO expensive, chicken is a bit more expensive than SA, but red meat, you looking at R6-700/kg for rump etc. I got here at the worst possible time too with their record high inflation, we started out at around R18k/pm for groceries, we're now pulling around R27k/pm for groceries, it's bleeding us dry! And I am not exaggerating these figures...you can get away with buying from budget stores but then you getting unhealthy b-grade kak.

And then it's all the small quality of life things we take for granted as South African's, like being able to go and have a meal as a family, we did it once here and the bill was R4k for 4 ppl for a drink each, main and dessert, needless to say that was the first and the last time. You looking at R500-600 per pizza if you try get takeaways. We rather just made our own food. Granted my experience is skewed because my wife and I earn in US dollar, so I am constantly comparing dollars to pounds to rands and I am trapped in the mentality of "This would have cost Rxx in SA" so maybe it would have been different had we been earning local currency.

This is where I come back to asset prices...the average family home here is £275000 for a semi-detached 3 bedroom place around 80-90sqm. Currently house prices are 9 times annual average salary (my data might be a bit incorrect by now but this was when I last checked) and this is without considering the insanely high cost of living. So for the average family, so say even if you are earning £70000 a year between the 2 of you which is higher than the average, owning anything other than a tiny hovel is a dream, because one can just never save enough to get a deposit, and the asset prices inflate at such a tempo that by the time you have a deposit the goal post is moved again. If we had stayed here we would have NEVER owned a decent house. Look if you come over as a specialist doctor or something highly qualified then things would be different, but then consider one's lifestyle in SA then in comparison. £70000 sounds like a lot but once all the deductions go off there's not much left at the end of the day and that's with ZERO luxuries.

And then the healthcare...lets hope the NHI never gets implemented in SA because the NHS here is such an abortion, you can NEVER get a doctors appointment when you need one, you must call at 8am and by the time you get through you're number 95 in the queue. And when you actually do get to see a doctor it's for 15min and if you try discuss a second problem they say "no no no, you were booked for one ailment, if you want to discuss a second thing you need to make a double booking". And then referral times if you have to see a specialist.... For example my wife has kidney issues which were diagnosed here in 2022, she got a referral back then to a nephrologist...she is STILL waiting. I buggered my knee up when sprinting for cardio in 2022, I got a referral in Jan 2023 from the doc to see a physio...literally only got seen in Feb 2024. We really took our medical aid for granted in SA.

My wife started suffering with depression too from being here because all her family are in SA, and the lifestyle here is very insular, you're stuck at home most of the year, we are used to being outside, braais etc etc. The culture is also SO different if you don't integrate (I always say it might as well be Japan it is that different), and with us working at home we never really had to integrate into the local communities etc. Not saying the culture difference is a good or a bad thing, just so different to what we are used to back home, i'll use an example like that unsaid respect of calling older people Uncle or Auntie out of respect in SA, here that is just absent. The kids are also just on another level...demons incarnate compared to our kids back in SA.

We were going to stay until citizenship via ancestry visa (6 years) but we got to a stage between my wifes depression and me looking at the financial writing on the wall...we would never be able to own any house other than a box in our lifetime, there is no decent health care, cost of living is INSANE compared to SA, so we made the decision to head back, in SA we can buy a decent place in the next 3 to 4 years and have a much better quality of life. It makes me think of a saying someone said once can't put my finger on who...but it was "Why live like a poor person in North if you can live like a King in the South"

Please let me know if you have any other questions about the UK, this is just the tip of the iceberg!
Rough that you had to experience all that - but it is eye opening, a lot of people shit on SA when we're here but the truth is there aren't many places where you can live and experience what we have. Not to say there are no downsides but I'm probably as optimistic now about the country as I have been for years.

In terms of beef though, even as a student in europe over 10yrs ago now, the price of beef was insane. I literally bought a steak perhaps twice or thrice in 2yrs living in France. Fish and chicken were comparably priced (cheaper on a purchasing power basis really). Again, nearly 15yrs ago.

On the car front - if mileage and maintaining costs isn't a worry I'd be looking at something sportier and more fun - you don't mention kids, and if you have none, then I'd probably look at an M4comp of the previous gen, the platform is well sorted and the aftermarket support is immense. An M3 of the same generation is rarer and comes with 4 doors if that is a must. The M5s have become very big cars, and it'd be hard to justify unless the backseats are seeing serious seat time (to me, at least).

That aside, @Llew's threads on his cars are all about as detailed as you'd realistically need to make that sort of purchasing decision.
 

brentbmw

Member
Rough that you had to experience all that - but it is eye opening, a lot of people shit on SA when we're here but the truth is there aren't many places where you can live and experience what we have. Not to say there are no downsides but I'm probably as optimistic now about the country as I have been for years.

In terms of beef though, even as a student in europe over 10yrs ago now, the price of beef was insane. I literally bought a steak perhaps twice or thrice in 2yrs living in France. Fish and chicken were comparably priced (cheaper on a purchasing power basis really). Again, nearly 15yrs ago.

On the car front - if mileage and maintaining costs isn't a worry I'd be looking at something sportier and more fun - you don't mention kids, and if you have none, then I'd probably look at an M4comp of the previous gen, the platform is well sorted and the aftermarket support is immense. An M3 of the same generation is rarer and comes with 4 doors if that is a must. The M5s have become very big cars, and it'd be hard to justify unless the backseats are seeing serious seat time (to me, at least).

That aside, @Llew's threads on his cars are all about as detailed as you'd realistically need to make that sort of purchasing decision.
It was really eye opening before we went we were saying SA is going down etc etc, this experience really showed us the grass is green at home! Like take Siya Kolisi too, he and his family also heading back from France because his wife and kids were having such a hard time...and they didn't have to worry financially and it was still so hard on them, he made a post about it which I can't find off hand but it amounted to him saying he misses the spirit we have in SA compared to France where it's everyone for themselves, but one doesn't really get it until you experience it yourself.

On the car front, we have one 5 year old and may have another...hence the M5/X3, I think I already created a other petrol head haha because he already wants me to hammer the car whenever I can haha "he says daddy go fast so it feels like my skeletons are coming out" probably meaning that G-Force feeling haha.

Had it just been the 2 of us probably would have gone M4 or M140i and modded it to hell and back
 

Eust

Well-known member
I'd buy the X3M simply because at 1.1M it's an out of plan or soon to be out of plan 2018 base M5, that you have no idea how it's been driven, and who's warranty cover won't cover anywhere near the cost for any catastrophic failure. All else being equal the M5 is the one to get but at 2 or more years older than an equivalent priced X3MC, no chance.

There are a couple late 2020 X3MCs that are under R1.2M, that can be extended until end 2027.

That's just my risk aversion - wouldn't want my ass out on an R1M+ car that's soon to be 7years old.
 

jld010

Active member
Where in Sa are you from? How bad must it have been that you just decided to pack up and emigrate to England..during what is widely considered to be a catastrophic period of inflation and economic contraction facing the middle class in the UK.
 

brentbmw

Member
Where in Sa are you from? How bad must it have been that you just decided to pack up and emigrate to England..during what is widely considered to be a catastrophic period of inflation and economic contraction facing the middle class in the UK.
We were in Noordheuwel, Krugersdorp. And wasn't bad at all, we actually had a wonderful life in SA, but my cousin's had been saying for years the UK is paradise on earth etc etc and then after the riots in 2021 we thought no let's go and see how the UK was, biggest mistake ever.
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member

I did the cost exercise at some point and the guys in the UK tell you not to worry and when you're there it won't matter. I've got family there that moved across 30+ years ago and laid down proper roots. I think they don't realise how it has become in the last 10 years or so. It's even the same with my folks in Australia - they seem to think guys are just able to show up in Australia and make something happen LOL. @KPM3_30 and I had this chat and I told him the calculation was about R45M to go and live the same kind of life in the UK in terms of what 'the number' was to uproot yourself and go live like for like... and that ain't living like a king. It's INSANE.

Apart from this, the unrest there makes our couple of days of riots and the occasional strike seem like a kindergarten squabble. Again this is just based on what you see online: on the ground it may be different.

I travelled into Africa quite a bit to countries that were very poorly regarded 10 years ago eg: Ghana and Rwanda. Not milk and honey, but they are now good enough that people are no longer seeking migration to the UK (UK has been a destination for skilled tradesmen and healthcare workers for years seeking a better life for themselves and to improve the lives of family back home). The perception (and this was a project I worked on last year) is that they can't really send any money back home (one of the reasons this was popular for such workers in the past). Of those who WANT to still go, the UK policy on immigration sways with the wind but that's another story.

My crackpot theory is that a lot of the issues we are facing are because we never 'paid' for the financial crisis of 2008 and subsequent 'mini' crises and the cost of living. It was a band aid of fancy financial gymnastics and printing money that has a shelf life in terms of how long it lasts and how often it can be used. Unfortunately no lessons were learned either. Society then found it easy to blame Covid (which would not even have been a thing if not for lockdowns 'delineating' it so clearly and it being blamed so openly for economic performance. I have been sitting at companies that actively just used it for 3+ years after to blanket wave away poor performance that was KNOWN to have a different source). There needed to have been a period of absolute rock bottom, but you then become politically unpopular when you run a tight budget and have austerity measures and won't last a full term (not in the UK anyway).

Even the kinds of jobs you were funnelled into were guided by policy to make countries appear more advanced/progressive etc. Eg: Focus on STEM (of which I am a graduate from the early 2000s). It was a well documented drive at the time and was necessary but the approach that was taken was extreme (in terms of making it appear that it was ONLY STEM worth doing). I can't complain about how life has turned out. What I do know however is that my electrician is probably running a more successful business than I am... and my plumber DEFINITELY is. I remember wanting to do industrial arts (back when that was a subject in school) and I was told I must do technical drawing cos if you're 'smart' you should be doing that and not the 'dirtier' industrial arts. I literally had teachers convincing my parents to change my mind :ROFLMAO: There was also one girl in the TD class which was scandalous in the 90s LOL but she also had a bit of a fight to do it as well! This is just one example I personally have of how even in South Africa we had these forces.

Here I am now 30 years later doing DIY jobs on my cars and house and having consumed vast amounts of the lessons on MIT's open courseware just out of interest LOL. I wonder what was more up my alley and what might have been? I also wonder how many other kids were in this position (or didn't even put up a fight to ask). Reason I bring this up is that the UK, like many first world countries, has become a net importer of the non STEM skills (truck drivers, plumbers, mechanics etc) as well as the 'lower tier' healthcare professionals that their youth were probably discouraged from pursuing because it was not sexy at the time. Now those (LEGAL) immigrants are getting a bad rap because the actual STEM jobs actually don't exist in large volumes the UK and unemployment is spoken about as a catch-all term as opposed to the nuanced discussion it really is (rinse and repeat for SA - focus and scholarships for days on STEM but virtually zero jobs in my time LOL). There is a whole generation promised that if you were smart and did x you would have a job for life and earn a good income and the future was going to be a clean energy green utopia with 'dirty things' sent off to some third world country. Parts of this were true (if you want to see, broadly, where the money and power really is - look at the countries that picked up these jobs that nobody wanted - India/China/Korea/ etc :ROFLMAO:). (I am not saying things are great as a worker there but you can kind of infer where economic power was actually sitting) Anyway, bad times come around, as was the case in 2008 and then many of your highly academically skilled/trained population actually have (bluntly) no marketable skill for what the market needs at that particular time. These people sold dreams about being in the best and most progressive countries and highly educated have to look at 'dirty' jobs done by immigrants being filled while they are earning zero because unfortunately big pharma doesn't need another bench populated and Investec doesn't need more developers (actually maybe they're planning to outsource to India LOL) but best believe a pothole and the sewers need to be worked on... Those STEM jobs are sitting in other countries or the jobs that do exist require newer/different skills or experience than what is available in the marekt and needs to be imported. Unfortunately politicians drinking the same own kool aid/smoking the same stash they sold to the public has this effect.

If you weren't smart enough for STEM, law or commerce, then gender studies/pol sci etc were options... to get what jobs at the scale they were done at, I don't know... but trades? Do you want to look like a failure to your GenX/Boomer parents? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: The narrative out there is now to actually focus on 'entrepreneurship' (FFS as a 'serial entrepreneur' let me tell you that it is NOT for everyone let alone some young person that actually has no aptitude for it and is in absolutely no position to absorb the failures that come with it). There's also the concept of fractional work (many of us including some on the forum are in this now and it is just the reality of there being zero job stability in all but a few industries right now) and of course trades (cos someone has to actually do 'real work' to keep the world going and keep the infrastructure going for those higher tier jobs to keep rolling at some point.). On the fractional work piece this has become a thing because (in ICT for instance) there has been so much consolidation of roles in the name of cost saving that there is nobody that can fill the actual vacant role that exists so they hire (often the same) people to cover off the work while the role remains perpetually vacant. Don't worry though this does cost more money but the accountants can reflect it as Opex instead of headcount costs so it's then OK.

Now all these forces are converging and we are seeing (probably for the first time in the 'big' western nations) the impact of years of foreign policy, social engineering, financial band aids and spin doctoring...
 

TBP88

Well-known member
It was really eye opening before we went we were saying SA is going down etc etc, this experience really showed us the grass is green at home! Like take Siya Kolisi too, he and his family also heading back from France because his wife and kids were having such a hard time...and they didn't have to worry financially and it was still so hard on them, he made a post about it which I can't find off hand but it amounted to him saying he misses the spirit we have in SA compared to France where it's everyone for themselves, but one doesn't really get it until you experience it yourself.

On the car front, we have one 5 year old and may have another...hence the M5/X3, I think I already created a other petrol head haha because he already wants me to hammer the car whenever I can haha "he says daddy go fast so it feels like my skeletons are coming out" probably meaning that G-Force feeling haha.

Had it just been the 2 of us probably would have gone M4 or M140i and modded it to hell and back
Ja, depending on how your budget is formatted I'd probably try to find an F10M5 and then have a nice fund available to sort out issues and to spend a fat chunk just getting it up to spec - if you *must* have an M5. or get something like an X3M/340M/old gen M3. The M3 might be a tight squeeze with 2 kids though, depends on how light/efficient you guys are at shoving stuff in.
 

brentbmw

Member
Don't shoot me...


You can extended the plan until 2034.. Cost wont be too high as you wont need to buy mileage..
I had actually considered Audi...but for the sake of peace I didn't bring it up with the wife...she HATES an Audi, and after my experience with the B9 S4 we had...it had the most atrocious throttle lag (it's pretty well documented even on the Macan with the same motor) from a standstill that I just couldn't get over, even in S and dynamic, I tried everything, pedalbox etc but it was just an unfixable problem the way Audi tuned the throttle, other than that it was a wonderful car, premium interior, plenty of power, felt torquey and nimble, but that lag just ruined the ownership experience. The rocker arms are also a concern...

The RS5 might have better throttle tuning though as it's an RS model, maybe we should test drive it (if I can get around the wife thinking Audi is the anti-Christ) and see how it is to check every box.

When we moved to the X3 M40i the driving experience was night and day in terms of responsiveness and overall throttle feel, the gearbox too although the same box as the S4 was tuned waaaaay better. The Audi was either too eager or too gevrek.

BMW just has this knack of tuning their gearbox/engine combos perfectly, it's like the gearbox knows exactly where to be at any given time. Same as when we had the 435D xDrive (we don't get them in SA) it was amazing, throttle response was amazing. Pity we had to sell that due to DPF issues form short trips.

Thanks for the suggestion though, I will definitely be sure to check this out as an option!
 

jld010

Active member
There is a 2021 Red RS5 sitting at Origins at Pharoah. Mileage..21k for R1.15m..sure you can get them down to R1.1m. But if you looking at RS5s..might as well get a 2019 M4 Comp..Mileage under 30k..they just extended the plan..sitting at BMW Centurion. R1.1m
 

MoeM2

Well-known member
What I keep gravitating to in this ballpark is per below. It could be that I really like the performance estate vibe and this colour combo is up my alley, the other bit is Audi freeway plan is more affordable to extend especially if you don’t do much mileage and it’s just time. Then there’s the bit that you can extend to 15 years 300 000 km.

Might be biased here - I have swapped the wifes x3 for a q7 and loving the vehicle. Also will throw in another R100k and extend the plan for another 5 years and 50 000km which makes the proposition financially viable.

Also - don’t shoot the messenger



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