First Real M car: 1998 E36 M3. Advice please

[ShanGov]

Hi Guys

I have been in the market for an E36 M3 for some time now and just never found one that met my expectations in terms of price, condition and mileage. One of my former work colleagues ( recently left) was the 2nd owner of a Avus blue M3 which from all our conversations, I could tell it was loved and cherished. He had it from 2003 and was actually his daily driver for 13years.

He left to start his own business so I gave him a call this past Friday and asked him if he was interested in selling to raise some capital. He said he would need some time to think about it but I called him on Sat and said I was coming to see it while he thinks about it After some test drives and about 2 hours we agreed on a price and I paid him a deposit as there are some cosmetic issues that he said he would address.

The car is original, fully stock and mechanically sound ( except for front shocks) and accident free. Its doing 160k Kms and all the preventative maintenance has been done and all services were done by my friend well within the normal intervals.

Heres the catch - the front end is marred by road rash. A large stone hit the bumper and damaged the front fascia ( part that goes around the grill and headlights). He has a new original fascia from BMW and a new lip also from BMW and will get those painted along with repairs to the bumper so all of that should be fresh. The other thing is that there are quite a few stone chips on the bonnet and deep scratches on the fender tops adjacent to the bonnet on either side with a few small dents. Someone broke into his garage and was standing on the fenders to reach a bicycle! The rest of the body is in pretty good condition.

Im planning on keeping it long term as this is honestly a dream car for me and its my 40th bday present to myself but now I'm faced with either touching it up and trying to buff out the scratches with a professional 3 stage correction or going with a full professional respray. The non-respray with some PDR route may mean that its straight but touched up with say 50% of the scratches remaining while the full respray may cost in excess of 50K and may affect resale down the line. I attached a pic showing the scratches on one side of the bonnet.

What are your thoughts on this? Firstly what would a decent full respray cost and second would it negatively affect the resale value because people immediately think a car is sprayed due to an accident? Or should I just get it professionally detailed with a proper paint correction with touch ups and PDR and live with it being neat but less than perfect?

The price we agreed on takes into account a 50-60k cost for the full spray.

 

[gavsadler]

Easy test, can you feel the scratch running your fingernail across the bonnet?

If your finger nail catches where the scratch is, that's generally too deep to buff out with a detail. It would need to be painted.

If it feels fairly smooth, but just looks terrible, there's a good chance that it can be saved with a proper paint correction. Sure it may not be 100%, but will be much improved.

If you're planning to keep it long term, do what makes you happy. You need to look at the car for the next few years. A full respray may also be touch and go depending who does it, and I guess there is chance that other damage that could occur e.g. badly fitting trim pieces, brittle plastics that get broken etc.

 

[ShanGov]

Easy test, can you feel the scratch running your fingernail across the bonnet?

If your finger nail catches where the scratch is, that's generally too deep to buff out with a detail. It would need to be painted.

If it feels fairly smooth, but just looks terrible, there's a good chance that it can be saved with a proper paint correction. Sure it may not be 100%, but will be much improved.

If you're planning to keep it long term, do what makes you happy. You need to look at the car for the next few years. A full respray may also be touch and go depending who does it, and I guess there is chance that other damage that could occur e.g. badly fitting trim pieces, brittle plastics that get broken etc.

I can feel the scratches which is why I think 50% of the scratches will still be visible even with a paint correction. I am trying to get quotes for a respray but everyone wants to see the car before giving a quote ( which I understand) so this makes it challenging to understand how much I will be in for as I don't have the car with me

 

[General.Massacre]

My opinion here, if you dont want the respray route, is give the VIN to BMW, and order a touch up paint bottle. (Comes with a bottle of colour, and bottle of clear)
Lightly Wetsand the area with 1500grit to remove any chipped paint etc, but sounds and looks like its already smooth in tat sense, Get a fine thin paint brush from a hobby store, and lightly fill the deep scratches, take your time, then allow some time for it dry, or harden, and then get a very fine sandpaper and lightly wet-sand (1500grit) the area, and high parts of the scratches with the new paint, flat it, and then get a cutting compound, then buff, then polish the area.

Edit:
I do know that the bonnet and fender is larger area than the example above, but the same principle will apply, just on a larger area, the first wetsanding pass before applying any paint will show the deep points on the bodywork, thats what the paint will fill, then second wetsand passes will flat the areas, and then buffing will do the rest.

But yes, with a large area of damage like you have, it will take some time,

 

[zabbo]

If you going to keep the vehicle long term, I would suggest the respray with refreshing the lights and some of the brittle cosmetic plastic components as well. These will seem overkill but once you respray the vehicle these items will stand out and you will wish you did them with the respray. The overall look will be enhanced.

Just keep proper photographic evidence of the process to allay any concerns a potential future buyer may have. Will aid in the value of the vehicle - This is of course if you not going to change the colour of the vehicle. A proper respray should not run you more than R50k with a reputable workshop.

 

[///M Individual]

I would do the detail and paint correction to get it as light as possible then check with company's like Dr Color Chip or Restore My Car if they can touch up those scratches or at least make it less visible. They also match paint correctly as per vin and have some good touch up methods.

I would avoid respraying and keep it original as possible. Yes there are battle scars but I would prefer this than having it fully painted. As mentioned above having it resprayed comes with its own challenges as there are very few good panel shops out there.

 

[ShanGov]

Lots of solid advice here - I appreciate it guys. After speaking to a few detailing shops that do paint correction and touch ups as well as some reputable body shops, Ive decided to go the full respray route. Reasons:

• The touch up guys ( 2 that I spoke with) said that the scratches are going to very challenging and its going to be visible and patchy and they actually advised me to go with a full respray even though its a last resort. 3 stage correction with detailing is around 8 -10k with coatings and if I go this route and I end up not being happy then I wasted that money
• The bumper needs minor repair and paint from a stone hit and that same incident damaged the fascia trim. So the new trim from BMW needs to be painted and fitted as well as the bumper painted. With those two parts painted there is going to a strong chance that one will see the colour difference between original and new. So with large scratch patches and lots of deep stone chips on the bonnet and a painted bumper I rather just get the whole car done professionally.
• The first owner installed a rear wing which the second owner removed as it was the wrong spec - this left two holes on either side of the boot lid. Its covered with carbon fibre tape but with a respray I can get that minor irritation fixed. Attached a picture for reference
• If I thoroughly document the process and keep pictures and videos justifying the spray job then I think a smart future buyer may see value down the line as original paint and low mileage cars are calling crazy prices, which I am not aiming for. First I think this is a car I would like to keep long term so resale is not a priority but if it did come to that later, then I think an honest car with a top quality respray for cosmetic reasons will still be enough for me to break even and even make some money with how these are appreciating year on year.

If I step back and I was looking at this car after a paint job with no signs of accident damage going for ~60-70k more than what I paid for it now, I would still buy it so I think that's how I will rationalise it. I'm pretty OCD with cars and the smallest ding or imperfection annoys me so I rather have it looking pristine than patchy and scratchy

 

[modocrat]

Need pics of the car

 

[///M Individual]

Please make sure you choose a good panel shop who understands your OCD or you are going to be sadly disappointed and wish you left it as is and then have to spend more money getting it right.

Members like @Benji can attest to this.

 

[Benji]

It is impossible to give advise without seeing the car, but I would avoid resprays as an absolute bloody final resort. You will spend 40k + on a decent repaint, micro-manage the process etc etc and then still not be happy.

Have a look at this, maybe you can achieve similar results if you have the time and patience - obviously not with the holes in the boot:

 

[///M Individual]

It is impossible to give advise without seeing the car, but I would avoid resprays as an absolute bloody final resort. You will spend 40k + on a decent repaint, micro-manage the process etc etc and then still not be happy.

Have a look at this, maybe you can achieve similar results if you have the time and patience - obviously not with the holes in the boot:

@ShanGov take it from someone with experience - you can have a look at Benji's threads to see the type of projects he takes on so he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Sibonelo]

Congratulations on the car man.. I have a 325i E36 and love it to bits. I recently did a stage 3 polish and a ceramic coat on mine, on original paint, some of the starches are still there but I guess I'm a sucker for keeping it original paint..

 

[ShanGov]

Gents after reading all your points and losing some sleep over this, Ive decided to cancel the sale and get my deposit back. Fortunately, the owner hasn't spent any time or money on it since the deposit was paid ( he needed to bring the licence disk up to date). Body shops these days are an expensive lucky packet and Im not the gambling type.

I know that either way( correction or paint work), Im not going to be happy so my gut says walk away. My gut is usually right. Ive got something else non-M lined up but I will post when the deal is done.

Its not the ideal outcome but I better walk away from something that isn't sitting well with me - thanks for your input guys. I guess I needed to hear this from others to solidify my own thoughts.

 

[maleven-GP]

Oh no 😪.. What a anticlimax 😅...

Maybe, with owners permission you can put up a sale thread for him.. Who knows a Fanatic might just take it on..

Gents after reading all your points and losing some sleep over this, Ive decided to cancel the sale and get my deposit back. Fortunately, the owner hasn't spent any time or money on it since the deposit was paid ( he needed to bring the licence disk up to date). Body shops these days are an expensive lucky packet and Im not the gambling type.

 

[ShanGov]

Oh no 😪.. What a anticlimax 😅...

Maybe, with owners permission you can put up a sale thread for him.. Who knows a Fanatic might just take it on..

He doesnt want to put it up for sale and it wasn't actually up for sale - he was only selling to me because we have history. He said he is going to sort it out himself and keep it

 

[individj]

its becoming difficult to find examples with good history etc that need a little work. I hope you find the right one one day...I made a terrible mistake with a 325is and that dream won't be fulfilled .....well I am sure a few of us here have.

 

[///Avi]

Gents after reading all your points and losing some sleep over this, Ive decided to cancel the sale and get my deposit back. Fortunately, the owner hasn't spent any time or money on it since the deposit was paid ( he needed to bring the licence disk up to date). Body shops these days are an expensive lucky packet and Im not the gambling type.

I know that either way( correction or paint work), Im not going to be happy so my gut says walk away. My gut is usually right. Ive got something else non-M lined up but I will post when the deal is done.

Its not the ideal outcome but I better walk away from something that isn't sitting well with me - thanks for your input guys. I guess I needed to hear this from others to solidify my own thoughts.

This is a mistake even if it needed some paintwork. The ownership history is gold.

But it is your decision and peace is more important at the end of the day.

 

[ShanGov]

Maybe one day I'll regret it but honestly right now I feel a sense of relief and that says something. I trust my gut feel here and I'm with you a 100% about mental peace.

 

[TBP88]

Just out of interest, what is the owner after? Because at the end of the day that's what determines whether this is worth it or not - if you walked away I'd assume you can find a better nick one for the difference of getting this one up to spec. If not - you're making a mistake.

 

[ShanGov]

I can't share pricing - that was between friends and down the line, who knows, he may want to sell.

It may be a mistake to some and a relief to others based on one's personality. I am the type who will call my PDR guy out for a single door ding because my eye will keep catching that defect. Older cars I can live with age and mileage related "patina" but in this case, the damage to the bonnet and fenders with high amounts road rash means it isn't for me and it will bother me if I left it original or got a less than perfect paint job - its a risk I cannot take and I made peace with it. Theres many nice cars out there that I would like to own and for me they have to be mechanically sound and be in solid aesthetic condition.

I take pride in that almost all my vehicles get sold for higher than market because I am anal about preventative maintenance and I can always take the cars aesthetic appeal up a notch as an amateur detailer but this one is beyond my capabilities and also beyond that of professionals.