New M2 vs Cayman 718 GTS 4.0

[MR_Y]

Interesting comparison.

In SA, the difference in base new price is about R300k. But, adding options and also paying a premium to skip waiting lists means that the M2 in reality is pretty close to the GTS in price. The Cayman becomes more attainable when comparing slightly used GTS 4.0 models against a new M2.

Yes, these cars are not direct competitors. If you have kids and nead the practicality, then the M2 is the clear choice. But for those who are cross shopping and don't need practicality, then it gets interesting.

If you are older and suffer with a bad back, the M2 is the easier car to get in and out off. The Cayman is pretty low slung and low to the ground, and when you cross the age of 40, it can become a challenge to make on boarding and off boarding look elegant...

 

[TurboLlew]

If you have kids and need the practicality you're not spending R1.6M on a toy though. This is to add to your existing garage... it has become that way anyway with where it is priced. I can't imagine anyone justifying this as a practical only car for what it costs, and if you do somehow fit into this niche (which I feel only exists in people's minds or as an excuse to justify a preference) why not go with the M3 or M5.

I guess this is just also my feeling that if you have R1.6M to spend you're able to play around a bit (in life in general) and you are not someone forced to make a purely value based decision either (unless you have some mental/psychological hangups around this)

It just feels like nobody wants to say anything is 'bad' anymore (or poorly positioned or a poor choice) in the media or online for fear of not being 'fed by the masters' be it followers or those who are supplying the cars.

I am turning 40 this year and hoping not to be faced with this instant loss of health and back ache that will make me choose 540is and force me to sell my Alfa will report back on that one.

 

[TBP88]

TBH Unless you go LWB (I don't think you can even spec GTS with this) then entry and exit isn't that bad. My dad's pushing 70 and he can get in and out without contorting himself.

As I said elsewhere, at the prices BMW charge you need to *REALLY* love the brand.

We are shopping for a new car for my partner, a CX30 in decent spec is around R500kish, an X1 in base spec is R800kish. Similar power, the interior on the BMW is *marginally* better, exterior styling is personal choice (I think the mazda is nicer).
But even then, a R300k badge premium!? A fully specc'd X1 is probably north of R1.1m!?

 

[Del-Bosc]

I had to make this choice amongst others recently and undoubtedly the gts is the car to have. The 4.0 with a manual is magic to drive. The stock exhaust sounds incredible. You have to see the gts in person to appreciate its aggressive intakes and wide rear end. If you love induction noises drive a gts. I fit in it fine @ 1.88m 115kg(no comments) buckets are a no for me, ripped many a pants and strained legs in the past and thus went with the sports seats this time round.

 

[r0ckf1re]

GTS > M2 any day, in every way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[M3boi]

Yes this is a BMW forum, but its impossible to not acknowledge how good Porsches are. Porsche driving dynamics have ruined every other car for me especially the GT cars.

 

[TBP88]

I had to make this choice amongst others recently and undoubtedly the gts is the car to have. The 4.0 with a manual is magic to drive. The stock exhaust sounds incredible. You have to see the gts in person to appreciate its aggressive intakes and wide rear end. If you love induction noises drive a gts. I fit in it fine @ 1.88m 115kg(no comments) buckets are a no for me, ripped many a pants and strained legs in the past and thus went with the sports seats this time round.

If you like the widebody look you get easily source some carbon side intakes to give it that beefier look. Give it a google.

 

[NBN]

Yes this is a BMW forum, but its impossible to not acknowledge how good Porsches are. Porsche driving dynamics have ruined every other car for me especially the GT cars.

Most Bmw guys turn into Porsche owners if their budget allows..........just stating facts

 

[TurboLlew]

Most Bmw guys turn into Porsche owners if their budget allows..........just stating facts

Absolutely spot on

BMW has eroded its value proposition and overplayed its hand at this point with these 1.6m “budget performance cars”. They were pushing it at 1M already.

if you are choosing a modern BMW manual over a Porsche manual I have no words. Current gen BMW manual boxes (default action and feel etc) are average at best for performance cars. People have not driven Jap or Porsche manuals if they believe they are anything special (even with Porsches irritating auto rev match which I think they’ve fixed and can now be turned off in other drive modes). Maybe you like that and it’s fine but Porsche is much MUCH better imho.

BMW will always have a great following, passionate community and lasting legacy regardless of this current situation. Just that if you have 1.5m burning a hole in your pocket then they don’t make a particularly good case buying brand new now…

All just imho

 

[TBP88]

I had to make this choice amongst others recently and undoubtedly the gts is the car to have. The 4.0 with a manual is magic to drive. The stock exhaust sounds incredible. You have to see the gts in person to appreciate its aggressive intakes and wide rear end. If you love induction noises drive a gts. I fit in it fine @ 1.88m 115kg(no comments) buckets are a no for me, ripped many a pants and strained legs in the past and thus went with the sports seats this time round.

Another question - what colour is that? Looks great in the sun when the flake catches a bit.

 

[TBP88]

Absolutely spot on

BMW has eroded its value proposition and overplayed its hand at this point with these 1.6m “budget performance cars”. They were pushing it at 1M already.

if you are choosing a modern BMW manual over a Porsche manual I have no words. Current gen BMW manual boxes (default action and feel etc) are average at best for performance cars. People have not driven Jap or Porsche manuals if they believe they are anything special (even with Porsches irritating auto rev match which I think they’ve fixed and can now be turned off in other drive modes). Maybe you like that and it’s fine but Porsche is much MUCH better imho.

BMW will always have a great following, passionate community and lasting legacy regardless of this current situation. Just that if you have 1.5m burning a hole in your pocket then they don’t make a particularly good case buying brand new now…

All just imho

As bad as BMW are Merc are somehow even worse.

When I started car shopping I went to have a look at a then new CLA45. After I pointed out that the Porsche dealer *DOWN THE ROAD* charge around R200k more for a GT4 vs what they had on offer (ironically the Porsche prices increased dramatically from there!) the guy said "but this has a 4cyl motor making more power which proves merc is more efficient".

I *wish* I was joking. I honestly don't understand how people can afford a new BMW given the current rates of depreciation, high interest rates and the outrageous balloons they load onto cars as "default" now. A 40% balloon on a 5yr term with rates in the high single digits (and rising potentially), that's absolutely wild to me. A kitted X1 is near R1m. That's meant to be an entry level mom and pop runabout and they're charging the price of a decent bachelor pad in CT.

I do think you're harsh on the BMW manuals though. BMW has always been a bit more rubber-ey on the manual, so it might make the car less engaging but it makes it no less fun. I very much enjoyed my Z4M manual box and by all accounts the previous M2 box was similar.

One thing, simple thing, that BMW can change is to make their steering wheels less padded. The Z4M wheel is far too thick and padded, as are the new BMW wheels. The Porsche steering wheels are far thinner and make the driving experience far more engaging, delicate feeling and there's no meaningful decrease in comfort on long (5hr+) drives.

 

[MR_Y]

Most Bmw guys turn into Porsche owners if their budget allows..........just stating facts

Well...

My 2013 Boxster cost less than a new 118i when I bought it in 2020.

My low miler 2014 Cayman S cost less than a 320i when I bought it in 2021.

My current 2016 Macan S Diesel costs less than a new X1 18d.

(all my cars being on extended Porsche plan)

For me, my budget does not allow to buy a new BMW . When you factor in depreciation, you will hardly lose on a Porsche (depending on spec and model).

But, BMW does have a place. Certain models will keep their value and also entertain you as well. Just buy used though...

 

[NBN]

Well...

My 2013 Boxster cost less than a new 118i when I bought it in 2020.

My low miler 2014 Cayman S cost less than a 320i when I bought it in 2021.

My current 2016 Macan S Diesel costs less than a new X1 18d.

(all my cars being on extended Porsche plan)

For me, my budget does not allow to buy a new BMW . When you factor in depreciation, you will hardly lose on a Porsche (depending on spec and model).

But, BMW does have a place. Certain models will keep their value and also entertain you as well. Just buy used though...

Had this exact conversation over the weekend with a friend.... doesn't make financial sense especially if you buy from Porsche and have the better or less part of 12 year(s) worth of motorplan at your disposal. Also not a fan of some of the current designs and the big and heavy cars that are currently on the market but hey, everyone should spend their hard earned money, in the manner that brings them the most joy and happiness

 

[TurboLlew]

As bad as BMW are Merc are somehow even worse.

When I started car shopping I went to have a look at a then new CLA45. After I pointed out that the Porsche dealer *DOWN THE ROAD* charge around R200k more for a GT4 vs what they had on offer (ironically the Porsche prices increased dramatically from there!) the guy said "but this has a 4cyl motor making more power which proves merc is more efficient".

I *wish* I was joking. I honestly don't understand how people can afford a new BMW given the current rates of depreciation, high interest rates and the outrageous balloons they load onto cars as "default" now. A 40% balloon on a 5yr term with rates in the high single digits (and rising potentially), that's absolutely wild to me. A kitted X1 is near R1m. That's meant to be an entry level mom and pop runabout and they're charging the price of a decent bachelor pad in CT.

I do think you're harsh on the BMW manuals though. BMW has always been a bit more rubber-ey on the manual, so it might make the car less engaging but it makes it no less fun. I very much enjoyed my Z4M manual box and by all accounts the previous M2 box was similar.

One thing, simple thing, that BMW can change is to make their steering wheels less padded. The Z4M wheel is far too thick and padded, as are the new BMW wheels. The Porsche steering wheels are far thinner and make the driving experience far more engaging, delicate feeling and there's no meaningful decrease in comfort on long (5hr+) drives.

I have experienced the Merc thing. Plenty of their customers have written them off. I've ranted about it many times

On the gearshifts, depends on preference. I am not saying they are bad... but they ain't great. It is not the pinnacle of anything that it is often made out to be and not relative to other things in that range (though in fairness today, the internet says any manual is the most amazing thing in the world when sales numbers suggest otherwise)

On the steering wheels, I like the chunky steering wheels TBH another preference I guess. I wish my F90 wheel was a slightly smaller diameter or flat bottomed

 

[MR_Y]

Had this exact conversation over the weekend with a friend.... doesn't make financial sense especially if you buy from Porsche and have the better or less part of 12 year(s) worth of motorplan at your disposal. Also not a fan of some of the current designs and the big and heavy cars that are currently on the market but hey, everyone should spend their hard earned money, in the manner that brings them the most joy and happiness

A new M240i can out accelerate a used 911 991.1 Carrera and costs about the same. But is not comparable as a sports car. However, practicality and usability are in the M240i favour, as well as tech. In the 911's favour is better resale and a true sports car feel. If you need to have one car and depending on your needs, the M240i may work out better.

Another important point is Finance. It is easier to finance a newer BMW than a 10 year old Porsche. Also, you cannot get a balloon payment plan on an old Porsche.

 

[TurboLlew]

A new M240i can out accelerate a used 911 991.1 Carrera and costs about the same. But is not comparable as a sports car. However, practicality and usability are in the M240i favour, as well as tech. In the 911's favour is better resale and a true sports car feel. If you need to have one car and depending on your needs, the M240i may work out better.

Another important point is Finance. It is easier to finance a newer BMW than a 10 year old Porsche. Also, you cannot get a balloon payment plan on an old Porsche.

The last bit is very important...

And banks have different criteria: Eg Investec will only do a balloon on something new and has age vs. period criteria for used. Wesbank is meanwhile happy to offer 72 months and residuals on 3/4 year old cars some with over 100K miles.

 

[TBP88]

The last bit is very important...

And banks have different criteria: Eg Investec will only do a balloon on something new and has age vs. period criteria for used. Wesbank is meanwhile happy to offer 72 months and residuals on 3/4 year old cars some with over 100K miles.

I cannot imagine a worse plan that taking out 6yrs of finance on a 4yr old car without motorplan... Literally asking for people to lose their pants.

 

[TurboLlew]

I cannot imagine a worse plan that taking out 6yrs of finance on a 4yr old car without motorplan... Literally asking for people to lose their pants.

I think we are seeing it now. The tide has gone out and the people swimming naked are being exposed. As much as people seem to love saying 'well he will get his price' Facebook is full of project cars and former 'collectibles' asking progressively less over periods of time. On the Merc and Audi side sellers are already willing to accept less than half... And facebook shows you the drop from original asking price as well as how long it has been listed for

 

[Del-Bosc]

Another question - what colour is that? Looks great in the sun when the flake catches a bit

It’s Jet black metallic, agreed the flake adds that little extra touch.

 

[Del-Bosc]

I have owned other non porsche performance cars in the past, the only other car that gave me a sense of driving pleasure was my base 135i N54 manual. Something about that car spoke to me as a car guy. I must be honest I buy my cars based on how it sounds and makes me feel when I push the car. Ask the car guys who bought new e36 4 door m3’s what comes close to that experience. Unfortunately bmw has lost that edge in my eyes.