modocrat
Well-known member
I could live with this....if I could afford it.
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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
discussion G80/G82 - M3/M4 sales
- Thread starter Nukleuz
- Start date
Nastaliq
Well-known member
This is a shit ugly car.
It will never grow on me, I keep thinking it will, but every time I see one, its like seeing your plumbers arse when he is busy. No matter how long you look at it, it never gets appealing.
As for price. Madness would not even come close to describing the price.
But then I remind myself that BMW is not making this car for me.
I am okay with that for the most part.
It will never grow on me, I keep thinking it will, but every time I see one, its like seeing your plumbers arse when he is busy. No matter how long you look at it, it never gets appealing.
As for price. Madness would not even come close to describing the price.
But then I remind myself that BMW is not making this car for me.
I am okay with that for the most part.
Holiman
Well-known member
Look, for me, I like the look. My wife even says I am BMW biased. BMW could make a pig mixed with a donkey and I will still love it. But that price, is just ridiculous honestly. It’s playing in the big leagues now. And for those who can afford to change the looks, Evolve also had a render out on YouTube of how they changed the front.
On a side note, I was in CT this past week and boy do the f80 M3’s sound amazing at the coast!
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On a side note, I was in CT this past week and boy do the f80 M3’s sound amazing at the coast!
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realtrevor
Active member
I don't see a lot off them as well. Global sakes seem to be suggesting it's selling well.
On the pricing topic, I like how people suddenly talk 911 when a BMW M Car is priced similarly. No one said anything about the W205 C63s Coupé pricing which was about R1.9m as well. I remember when the G82 M4 was launched, I went to the configurator on the Merc site, spec for spec the C63s was R50k more expensive, but you'll never hear anyone saying I'd rather buy a 911. And besides on a straight line the M4 smokes the base Carrera and Carrera S and the similarly priced C63s.
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On the pricing topic, I like how people suddenly talk 911 when a BMW M Car is priced similarly. No one said anything about the W205 C63s Coupé pricing which was about R1.9m as well. I remember when the G82 M4 was launched, I went to the configurator on the Merc site, spec for spec the C63s was R50k more expensive, but you'll never hear anyone saying I'd rather buy a 911. And besides on a straight line the M4 smokes the base Carrera and Carrera S and the similarly priced C63s.
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gumpertapolloss
Member
Reason for not seeing them on SA roads that often - it's simple...
Stock is a huge issue worldwide. Chip shortage contribute a great amount to this.
Consumer in SA can't get the spec they want and have to settle for what is available. I don't know about you, but spending 2mil+ on a new car and not being able to have a spec that tickles your fancy - it a hard proposition for any sales executive.
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Stock is a huge issue worldwide. Chip shortage contribute a great amount to this.
Consumer in SA can't get the spec they want and have to settle for what is available. I don't know about you, but spending 2mil+ on a new car and not being able to have a spec that tickles your fancy - it a hard proposition for any sales executive.
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Quick///M
Well-known member
Guys are complaining about price truth is its not only bmw with the rediculous pricing, what about Merc, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar and Alfa?
All I hope that these crazy prices cause a market crash in the motor industry. Unfortunately we all support the crazy pricing buy supporting them.
All I hope that these crazy prices cause a market crash in the motor industry. Unfortunately we all support the crazy pricing buy supporting them.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
I have been hoping for this crash in the motor industry for a few years now already @Quick///M but unfortunately this is not coming anytime soon. Fortunately the used market being buoyed by shortages has at least made it "somewhat easier" to get into the higher priced cars (for instance my wife's trade on her C200 is - even now - about the same as we paid for it 2.5 years and 50000km ago). Same goes for my old F10 where I had guys literally hounding me to sell it to them (and for hundreds of thousands more than BMW was offering a few months prior).
The phenomenon is happening all over the world, yes, but not to the degree that it is happening in SA. we have beaten this topic to death before pulling numbers and percentages and exchange rates etc. When the shortages are over and things return to normal elsewhere, our car pricing will still remain high for a number of reasons AND we have a relatively small % of people able to actually buy these cars. For years we wondered how people were buying F30s (Residuals which people are so terrified of now, renting the car is more attractive), G20 (GFV - basically renting - pay 3/4 of the car's price, give it back and think you got a good deal), and the next phase is being able to finance cars that are older (WBC is so insanely popular partly because they will finance LITERALLY ANYTHING regardless of age) and everyone offers longer periods (you can basically bond your car now). These band-aids have gone as far as I believe they can go. What we are not talking about is the trail of devastation this leaves behind (How many people on this forum and facebook have we seen with their taking-the-piss posts of their cars advertised over retail obviously for what they owe - and in some cases at near new pricing).
The Chinese have set the cat amongst the pigeons in terms of pricing and will continue to apply pressure perhaps not to BMW or Merc yet but certainly to the rest of the market which will have knock-on effects.
I do believe that most people cannot afford these cars (Certainly not new) but if I am faced with a used F90 or new G80 (and sorry the M5 is simply in another league entirely from looks to performance to sound), I will choose the used option every day of the week.
If you're in the market for an M3, you are more likely to look to the 911 as an option... a car that is dynamically near-perfect, has looks that have stood the test of time, a very active community (LOL Merc) and unlike BMW, Merc and Audi, retains a huge chunk more of their value, especially in specific specs.
The 63 has a very different audience for the most part even though they might be close on paper, be similarly priced etc. You will never hear someone complaining about the pricing or styling etc etc because those people just don't seem to discuss these things (I have never come across similar communities for Mercedes here in SA). Either way, with the C63's looks, V8TT engine and noise, do you really think it can't justify a 50K bump on price vs something SO POLARISING we are still talking about the looks now ages after the launch? Straight line is important for reviewers and on paper... maybe when you're shopping. How a car feels is another matter entirely.
The phenomenon is happening all over the world, yes, but not to the degree that it is happening in SA. we have beaten this topic to death before pulling numbers and percentages and exchange rates etc. When the shortages are over and things return to normal elsewhere, our car pricing will still remain high for a number of reasons AND we have a relatively small % of people able to actually buy these cars. For years we wondered how people were buying F30s (Residuals which people are so terrified of now, renting the car is more attractive), G20 (GFV - basically renting - pay 3/4 of the car's price, give it back and think you got a good deal), and the next phase is being able to finance cars that are older (WBC is so insanely popular partly because they will finance LITERALLY ANYTHING regardless of age) and everyone offers longer periods (you can basically bond your car now). These band-aids have gone as far as I believe they can go. What we are not talking about is the trail of devastation this leaves behind (How many people on this forum and facebook have we seen with their taking-the-piss posts of their cars advertised over retail obviously for what they owe - and in some cases at near new pricing).
The Chinese have set the cat amongst the pigeons in terms of pricing and will continue to apply pressure perhaps not to BMW or Merc yet but certainly to the rest of the market which will have knock-on effects.
I do believe that most people cannot afford these cars (Certainly not new) but if I am faced with a used F90 or new G80 (and sorry the M5 is simply in another league entirely from looks to performance to sound), I will choose the used option every day of the week.
If you're in the market for an M3, you are more likely to look to the 911 as an option... a car that is dynamically near-perfect, has looks that have stood the test of time, a very active community (LOL Merc) and unlike BMW, Merc and Audi, retains a huge chunk more of their value, especially in specific specs.
The 63 has a very different audience for the most part even though they might be close on paper, be similarly priced etc. You will never hear someone complaining about the pricing or styling etc etc because those people just don't seem to discuss these things (I have never come across similar communities for Mercedes here in SA). Either way, with the C63's looks, V8TT engine and noise, do you really think it can't justify a 50K bump on price vs something SO POLARISING we are still talking about the looks now ages after the launch? Straight line is important for reviewers and on paper... maybe when you're shopping. How a car feels is another matter entirely.
realtrevor
Active member
Fair enough, does this mean the next W206 C63s should sell cheap because of its 2L engine? Trust me, it's gonna be way more expensive than the G8x M3/4. Performance wise it might be quicker in a straight line not on track.
A 911 is a perfect Sportscar, one day I wish to own one, but requires you to have another practical vehicle in the household especially if you have a wife and kid, while with the M3/4 and other cars on that category (RS5, C6, etc) you can use it as a daily, and for long trips with your family.
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TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
If the experience it delivers is more than the sum of its parts then it will sell. You leave out the part about the hybrid drivetrain and we have no idea what this will deliver yet... Have AMGs done this of late? @MR_Y and I went to Gerotek with all manner of AMG goodies including an E63S and GLS63 and nobody in the group was really tempted into them. In fact during most of the activities, they were trying to get us to leave our cars and get into the AMGs. Most comments were along the lines of "Sure It's fast, but...." They have lost something along the way.
Will it be more expensive? Probably. Does that mean anything? Not really if nobody buys them (or if they somehow deliver a superior experience and many start to buy them). The point was that the experience a W205 C63S delivered was worth a (at this level) small premium. We are looking to replace the W205 with the W206 and have shelved it now with the Mrs looking elsewhere. There are other reasons that people will not choose them I think...
M3 is more practical for sure, but a 911 is not much less practical than an M4 is going to be. I always find this argument interesting because it is never mentioned by people who actually own them (together with comments around comfort etc - none of these cars - even in S, competition or CS form are 'hard'). I don't think the person buying something like this actually cares about the practicality side of it and if they do they would be buying an M3/M5/Panamera etc for a 'one car fits all' garage
Some fairly interesting comments and opinions mentioned here. I purchased a new G80 M3 in august last year over the option of a 1 or 2 year old F90 comp. Test drove several competitors aswell / cars in the same price range and still the G80 seemed to me a more involving / fun car and the overall better purchase. Granted my driving ability is nowhere near my spending capabilities but at the end of the day who cares, I did what makes me happy.
I personally love the styling and the way the G80 RWD comp feels on the road. Its got nothing to do with having the latest M or wanting to show off.
When you're spending 2 bar plus on a car things are going to be pretty subjective / personal. For the most part you're buying purely with your heart not your head at that price bracket.
Anyone that thinks the G80 isnt worth the price tag, do yourself a favor and go test drive one. On the road the front end is absolutely remarkable and the grip is insane, the car feels like its on rails.
Fun factor was just that much more than the F90.
I personally love the styling and the way the G80 RWD comp feels on the road. Its got nothing to do with having the latest M or wanting to show off.
When you're spending 2 bar plus on a car things are going to be pretty subjective / personal. For the most part you're buying purely with your heart not your head at that price bracket.
Anyone that thinks the G80 isnt worth the price tag, do yourself a favor and go test drive one. On the road the front end is absolutely remarkable and the grip is insane, the car feels like its on rails.
Fun factor was just that much more than the F90.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
I did test drive a G80 hence my comments in the other thread about how good it feels despite the looks. I would never buy a G82 over a Porsche but the G80 makes a case for its existence LOL
Definitely can't agree about it being much more fun vs. F90 or the grip - I am obviously biased though LOL. Maybe it is driving styles/preference as well or the individual cars driven since yours is brand new and I'd driven a couple of fairly high mileage ones? I think I am just one of those that will tolerate but never love the looks - even if it was not the case I would still not have bought one. Either way I definitely agree that the G80 is the one to have over the G82 and that it is very capable. At this point, styling aside, you're basically choosing between Scarlett Johannsen and Gal Gadot - are you really going to go wrong?
The G82 is another kettle of fish - I don't understand buying one over a 911... especially given Mr Y's video he posted in another thread and considering 99% of people who buy them will not have the required skills or get the required track time to get the most out of it.
I did feel the F90s were lacking based on ones I had driven before (It still isn't perfect) but the exhaust added involvement/drama that was missing aurally and now the suspension has too.
Definitely can't agree about it being much more fun vs. F90 or the grip - I am obviously biased though LOL. Maybe it is driving styles/preference as well or the individual cars driven since yours is brand new and I'd driven a couple of fairly high mileage ones? I think I am just one of those that will tolerate but never love the looks - even if it was not the case I would still not have bought one. Either way I definitely agree that the G80 is the one to have over the G82 and that it is very capable. At this point, styling aside, you're basically choosing between Scarlett Johannsen and Gal Gadot - are you really going to go wrong?
The G82 is another kettle of fish - I don't understand buying one over a 911... especially given Mr Y's video he posted in another thread and considering 99% of people who buy them will not have the required skills or get the required track time to get the most out of it.
I did feel the F90s were lacking based on ones I had driven before (It still isn't perfect) but the exhaust added involvement/drama that was missing aurally and now the suspension has too.
TBP88
Well-known member
Ja, I don't think there can be any question about the dynamic abilities or practical abilities of the new M3/4 cars. I think the biggest question marks are around (1) resale vs their competition from Porsche (and around the R2m mark is base 911, Cayman GT4 with good spec, if you stretch a bit more R2.5m or so gets you a GT4RS - assuming you can get one, not sure how many are heading to SA!) and (2) their looks which are *highly* polarizing.
Personally it just isn't a pretty car in either 4 or 2 door guise. If you need an R2m family car, an RS6 wagon is probably R200k up the road (or save a bit and get an RS4 wagon if you don't need as much space/power), if you want something special and great to drive, get a 911. At current M3/4 pricing it is (for me) hard to make the case.
Personally it just isn't a pretty car in either 4 or 2 door guise. If you need an R2m family car, an RS6 wagon is probably R200k up the road (or save a bit and get an RS4 wagon if you don't need as much space/power), if you want something special and great to drive, get a 911. At current M3/4 pricing it is (for me) hard to make the case.
Always appreciate your comments Llew! Your F90 is 🔥. Looking at the pics im a little jealous!
Maybe its just a matter of my driving capabilities 😅 . I do remember the F90 did have that 'im gonna die shortly' feel to it when i was pushing it (test drives only) which probably also swayed my decision towards the G80.
I think thats part of the appeal of the G80, to me it feels like I can extract a large part of the cars performance (based on my abilities) without the 'shit, im gonna die' factor.
Porsche, none of the models (that I can afford) appeal to me. Drove a Carrera S and didnt walk away wanting to drive it again.
In terms of some of the resale comments, thats not ever part of the equation when purchasing a vehicle for me. Its not an asset so why pretend it is, a car at this price bracket is purely a tool for enjoyment, fun and emotion so you're not likely to make any money.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
Ahhh this now makes sense LOL. Totally get it. I get the other side of things with the 4C where I can drive it at close to 10/10ths without feeling like I will die... the F90 is still alot less scary than the modded F10. Thats part of what I like about M5s: They make you feel like God and then remind you that you are not
By the time this point comes in the F90 though you might be (as you say) at high risk of meeting him
Quick///M
Well-known member
We all know BMW resale is crap, if every person was concerned about BMW resale they would not be buying BMW's but yet BMW still make sales.
RS4/RS6 sure but would you get M3/M4 performance and dynamics ? Sure the extra space in these wagons would be beneficial for some guys. For me the RS4/RS6 really lacks in performance compared to M3/M4 which is why I would go with an M3/M4. Now you and I have clear difference in what we would buy and that is why the likes of Audi and BMW would always remain in business. Porsche has always been out of the question for me due to space.
TBP88
Well-known member
Given the performance ceiling of all the cars discussed in this thread accessing even 20% of it would mean you're at the "we don't issue fines, we issue handcuffs" level of illegal. I think the space for the M3 is constrained fundamentally as it gets too expensive. 2 decades ago a 911 cost around 50%-100% more than an M3 does, today it's pretty much the same. In terms of resale the question becomes much more relevant when you're discussing an end of the market where you can access a good that depreciates substantially less rapidly. If you're looking at a 3 series/X3 or smaller (probably over 60% of BMW sales) then your alternatives also depreciate at +- the same pace. When you step into serious performance cars there are options which simply don't have the same depreciation experience.
Finally, and I guess most importantly, you buy a car like this (or any performance car) for how it makes you feel. Sure the new M4 is faster than the old and that's faster than the E92 as well and so on. But really? Do the new ones sound better? look better? Cool, 0-100 is 3s now instead of 5s a decade ago. But realistically unless you're regularly hitting the track, that's immaterial. An E46 is still, by most people's measure, an immensely fast car. When you've stepped beyond 300kw or so the added power is almost all inaccessible on the road and what matters most is, fundamentally, how special the car is.
This is pretty much why I didn't get an M2. You're deep into used 911 territory for the M2C, and at the end of the day the performance difference between the two doesn't matter at all to me, a 991.1 C2S is a far more satisfying car to sit in, to drive and to look at than any BMW, because it is a purpose built sportscar that doesn't share it's cheap looking plastic-ey dash and 1000 other components with a car that cost half of what you did to buy it. Same with the new M3/4 as great as it is, it can't hide it's roots in a normal 320i family sedan - that's fine when you're a 50% saving on the porsche with equivalent performance, but not so much when you're a 5% saving (and that saving will evaporate in 1 yr of ownership in depreciation anyway).
maleven-GP
Well-known member
This Tuned BMW M4 Has An Interior To Die For | Carscoops
It is unclear how much the upgrades made to this BMW M4 set back the owner
www.carscoops.com
Someone already ripped it apart 😆😆
Quick///M
Well-known member
Depreciation is a double edged sword, mostly it affects those who buy brand new in the BMW stable, for other bargain hunters they get a value out of buying the M3/M4 a few years later, its a win win for the next buyer, imagine if that same BMW held its value ? I guess then we can't cry to much about BMW and depreciation! The Porsche motor plans are very sticky as well I don't see value in buying one without a plan unless you have loads of cash floating around.
As for looks all Porsche's looks the same to me, but I can certainly tell the difference between a 320i and m3.
To your point though you almost never going to take these cars to the track, which is why I would take a family sedan with performance levels that could match Porsche, win a few robot races now and then, take the whole family on a Sunday drive and still come back smiling. Maybe when all my kids leave the house will a 2 door Porsche look like value.
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