Gun Talk - legalities

[Evotheory]

Black talons were discontinued years ago, they have been replaced by a similar product from Winchester. In the UK hollow points are illegal, same for New Jersey the only state in USA where they illegal.
I'm trying to find the law in the latest firearms act and can't find it, perhaps it was law on one of the previous firearms acts.
Coisman where are you???

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Would Teflon coated bullets fall under armour piercing?

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This has gone way off topic, perhaps we can get a thread going specifically for gun talk in fire health and safety section.

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They real nasty bullets designed for maximum tissue damage, a surgeon's nightmare to repair! The good thing is they don't suffer from over penertration as the bullet is destroyed in the process.

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Your knowledge of the ballistic performance of various calibres and the laws applicable to ammunition is fatally flawed.

Your comment that hollow point ammunition is illegal is wrong! Even metro cops are getting this part of the firearms control act wrong and Sometimes wrongly confiscate guns or law abiding citizens on the basis that they are in possession of so- called "illegal ammunition". Spreading incorrect and unhelpful information like this simply is unhelpful for law abiding gun owners and fuels many wrong and uninformed conceptions about guns and gun owners. Read the law.

Not attacking you, I am taking issue with the incorrect information you conveyed on a publicly available forum.

I invite you to join the following forum: there is lots of interesting info, most of which is fact based with some ego posturing and rubbish but mostly good:
http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/search.php?searchid=5390743

 

[Nick]

These are cool. RIP 9mm round

Keen to get 50.

 

[Burgy]

Gizmo, Im not trying to be a %$#$% here but:

Hollow points are perfectly legal. They are 'safer' than FMJ's.

Black talons are still readily available.

Carrying FMJ's is a BAD idea.. the bullet can easily go through the intended target and hit someone else.

As anyone who carries will tell you, you do NOT shoot to wound, you shoot to kill. You only do so if absolutely necessary.

Armor piercing rounds are HIGHLY illegal.

I did training with Police reservists, they only recommend Hollow Points.

Every gun shop in SA will sell hollow points.

 

[Gizmo]

Im relatively new to the game and only going on info that was passed to me, sorry guys. I have as yet to buy anything other than FMJs.

 

[Burgy]

Gizmo: Not a prob mate, we all start somewhere. Id swop out those FMJ's though

 

[Coisman]

...still wondering how Metro Cops were singled out as not knowing the law and confiscating ammo... :thinking:

 

[Gizmo]

...still wondering how Metro Cops were singled out as not knowing the law and confiscating ammo... :thinking:

What is the laws on ammo? Police can get it wrong too.

 

[Coisman]

http://www.pmg.org.za/docs/2000/appendices/000905FirearmsControlPolicy.htm

 

[Gizmo]

All I can find on it. No mention as to what is and isn't allowed.

"You may only possess ammunition if you have a licensed firearm which uses that particular calibre of ammunition. You cannot possess more than 200 rounds per calibre of firearm at one time, and may not buy more than 2400 rounds per year. Exceptions are made for sports shooters and hunters (see page 15/16 Specific Users). The Registrar must be given proof that the ammunition is for a specific, licensed firearm. Some types of ammunition can only be used by the State."

 

[Coisman]

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-trial-hollow-point-bullets-vs-normal-rounds

 

[zaleonardz]

Giz, If I see you today, remind me to show you something.

 

[JayDrft]

Gizmo,

Just a point, where you mentioned that 9mm wasnt designed to kill, but rather wound.

No offence, but seriously...Any firearm is capable of killing you - be it a .22, enough of the lead poison will put you 6 foot under.

A 9mm with hollows will do enough damage, yeah - their impact force may not be enough to stop a parp, but it sure will let him know that his system has sprung a serious leak.

 

[Nick]

Also i think with enough practice any caliber could be deadly.

I take pointers from this DVD ( i have the full version for the pistol as well as shotgun and AR)

Chris Costa and Travis Hayley FTW.

[video=youtube]

 

[Evotheory]

...still wondering how Metro Cops were singled out as not knowing the law and confiscating ammo... :thinking:

What is the laws on ammo? Police can get it wrong too.

My comments were not intended to cause of offense or imply that police/law enforcement are incompetent nor was it meant to be a slight against law enforcement officials. My comment stem from recent events which I am personally aware of and some which have been conveyed to me (hearsay) involving metro police officers who has say the following is “illegal” (mostly conveyed pursuant to a road block search):
1. Carrying a firearm with a chambered round
2. Hollow point ammunition
3. Carrying more than 1 magazine for a licenced firearm.

 

[Nick]

With the Glock not having a "proper safety" on the weapon I never carry it with a round in the chamber.

 

[DieselFan]

With the Glock not having a "proper safety" on the weapon I never carry it with a round in the chamber.

That's the reason I've changed my mind from wanting a glock. Still a nice gun though.

 

[ASH M]

Firstly hollow points are legal in SA. I wouldn't carry anything else for self defense.

Go for a bigger caliber pistol for self defense and try explaining to the judge why you bought a pistol with such high fire power when you killed a criminal. Remember, your intent must be to stop the person from harming you not necessary killing him. A 9mm has enough fire power to kill someone, so if you faced with this situation in court. You got grounds to stand on, using a 45 and saying you mistakenly killed someone whist trying to stop them, will just just you deeper into kak.

New JHP 9mm have similar penetrating power to 45, especially at long range but who does that for SD? The muzzle energy for a 45 round might be more than a 9mm but the 9mm has much higher muzzle velocity, therefore compensating for this. Recent tests show that the 9mm round trumps bigger calibers.

The FBI, not our SAPS, have used 45 caliber pistols for years. But recently made the change to 9mm.

More rounds in the mag, better accuracy and far less recoil, while having more or less the same stopping power as bigger caliber pistols. Why not???


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With the Glock not having a "proper safety" on the weapon I never carry it with a round in the chamber.

That's the reason I've changed my mind from wanting a glock. Still a nice gun though.

It has an automatic safety. Glock says, "if you don't pull the trigger it won't shoot". I often carry mine one up, it been proven time and time again, even been towed behind a vehicle while been 1 up, it'll never fire. Glock has gone for this design from the start to avoid clumsy safeties that cost you time when you need your firearm to perform in an emergency.

Then again if you not comfortable with handling a firearm, a Glock isn't for you or any other firearm.


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[Nick]

I agree with every thing you just pointed out, i often think about the time id waste racking the slide to get it running in a situation.

The safety system is tried and tested on the glock so maybe i need to have faith.

 

[ASH M]

I agree with every thing you just pointed out, i often think about the time id waste racking the slide to get it running in a situation.

The safety system is tried and tested on the glock so maybe i need to have faith.

Nick, I've also had this issue at first. But as you mentioned, have faith in it and no doubt, you'll be fine.

If I'm driving in an area alone late at night (not talking cities here as I often work remote areas), and I know the possibly of being hijacked is very high. Then I'm 1 up, trusting Glock or not it has to be done. This alone as given enough faith out time.


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[gerald5ive]

A bit off topic but which range do u guys use? Midrand is R80 per person + R10 target sheets.