FIXED : CPS & O2 Sensor needed - Big Thank to Rick540 !!!

[E39 Ian]

Guys, I have had my codes checked, need a camshaft position sensor, coolant thermostat and 2 x pre-cat oxygen sensors

This will solve my fuel consumption woes, currently sitting at 25L/100km:bawling::banghead:

Anybody got spares at good prices or are you a closet good samaritan?

PLEASE :wave:

 

[clutchplate]

hmm, I'd suggest getting new ones tho.. I know there is a place where u can get the oxygen sensors for about 600 or 700 each, original bosch ones same as dealer. I will try find it again.. was on the internet somewhere locally. cam position sensor I think was about 1.2 or 1.5K from bmw...

wow man, 25L is hectic

 

[E39 Ian]

hmm, I'd suggest getting new ones tho.. I know there is a place where u can get the oxygen sensors for about 600 or 700 each, original bosch ones same as dealer. I will try find it again.. was on the internet somewhere locally. cam position sensor I think was about 1.2 or 1.5K from bmw...

wow man, 25L is hectic

Actual consumption is now 280km on 70L = 25L or 4km on a litre :banghead:

Is there a generic for the Cam Position Sensor? Bosch?? or is it stealers only?? :spit:

 

[clutchplate]

hmm, I havn't found any generics for the cam sensor. I know they updated them in 2001 I think, I think yours and mine still have the old ones which they don't make anymore..
only place I've been able to find is stealers... 1.something chronic tho :/

dunno how much second hand ones would be .. but it will prolly be the old kind still..

 

[rick540]

O2 sensors, universal Bosch LSH05 available at Goldwagen, camshaft sensor, only buy the agents parts, aftermarket ones are notoriously bad.

25L/100 is a serious problem and strikes me as being something else wrong. Carefull of fuel contamination of your oil, better to change that as well.

Maybe blocked catalytic converters? Take the car for a nice open road run up a nice hill to give that V8 a working, could be carbon build up as these engines hardly ever rev past 2500rpm in normal driving.

 

[E39 Ian]

O2 sensors, universal Bosch LSH05 available at Goldwagen, camshaft sensor, only buy the agents parts, aftermarket ones are notoriously bad.

25L/100 is a serious problem and strikes me as being something else wrong. Carefull of fuel contamination of your oil, better to change that as well.

Maybe blocked catalytic converters? Take the car for a nice open road run up a nice hill to give that V8 a working, could be carbon build up as these engines hardly ever rev past 2500rpm in normal driving.

Cats are removed by previous owner.



The owner of Zeemax read my codes and told me the Cam Position Sensor is my worst problem, I should replace this first.

Car is running very rich - shows up on codes too. When you start her up she deposits a carbon patch on the driveway and plugs are all carboned up too

Coolant thermostat also needs replacing - it keeps sending the message that the car is cold and needs extra fuel!! Although the meter on the dash reads perfect in the middle???? How much does that cost to replace?

 

[rick540]

For the very rich condition, you need to check properly the following in order to solve it.

MAF
Fuel pressure
Injectors
O2 Sensors
Engine temp sensor (Dual)
Intake air temp sensor
Thermostat
CPS
Crank CPS
TPS sensor

To be honest, you need to plug the car into a diagnostic and read out the live data whilst she is running. This condition can damage your engine very quick if you drive it daily.

Also, don't just read the codes, you need to clear them, drive it and read again to eliminate any false codes, so you do not waste money just replacing "stuff".

PM me, maybe I can help.

 

[BimmerMan]

Guys, I have had my codes checked, need a camshaft position sensor, coolant thermostat and 2 x pre-cat oxygen sensors

This will solve my fuel consumption woes, currently sitting at 25L/100km:bawling::banghead:

Anybody got spares at good prices or are you a closet good samaritan?

PLEASE :wave:

I am not suprised that you are getting 25L/100KM with a CPS error and both oxygen sensors shot... If the thermostat is shot too, your engine will never warm up which will mean it will overfuel!
The E39 V8s have to run hot, somewhere around 106C on the coolant sensor otherwise they run quite badly...

Just replace all of the above and you will have a different car...

BTW, if you go for the universal ones, it is quite a job to fit the connectors together. Took me a good few hours and some swearing before I got them fitted...

Good Luck...

 

[E39 Ian]

Excellent news guys !!!!!!!!! Rick540 helped me big time!! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Did full diagnostics - found injector 2 faulty also oxygen sensor no 1 running wild and idle control valve not clicking.

So step 1 - removed idle control valve - gave it an extensive clean with thinners by litterely pouring the thinners into it and shaking it around and then pouring the thinners out - repeated several times until a lovely crisp clicking sound is audible when you shake it. Replace back in position - a good idea is also to use a good silicone spray on the connectors before coupling them up

On to step 2 - removed the injector rail, not as easy as it sounds and this needs to be done slowly and carefully as parts are hellish expensive. Replaced the all injectors with another set, which had been cleaned previously. We also replaced the spark plugs with Bosch Super 4 as the old one where NGK's with 2 electrodes.
Once everything was put back together. We ran diagnotics again, the oxygen sensors still gave a error.

So then step 3 - oxygen sensors - the ECU gives a default value of 0.45 when it cannot detect a sensor. So when we got a reading of 1.27 on sensor 1 we knew it was shot, so all that was required was 10 mins to disconnect the sensor wiring under the car (done without jacking out up) On running the diagnostics again, the ECU had substituted it with a value of 0.45!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Problem solved

Ran diagnostics again - 2 errors 1. thermostat 2. phase sensor (google - cam position sensor)

Took a nice drive and consumption dropped to 9 L/100km

Rick you are a genius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you - Rick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap

 

[Raybimmer]

Ok Ian You can let the cat out of the bag now ....:excited:

 

[freerider]

Nice to know that forum members are helping each other out :thumbsup:

 

[clutchplate]

cool bananas bru ! glad to hear you got it sorted out eventually ..

 

[zabbo]

Nice to know that forum members are helping each other out :thumbsup:

+1

so why don't you let us know who helped you ... he could perhaps help others too.

 

[rick540]

Ian was just being polite as he didn't want people flooding me with requests. (Not that I mind, always willing to help )

And Ian It's a pleasure as always, I'm pleased I managed to solve the fuel problem for you, with todays prices it must have been harsh trying to feed that puppy at 25L/100Km!

Over time hopefully we can replace those sensors with new ones, but for now, nothing like making a plan.

It's interesting the misleading comments given to Ian when he was trying to diagnose this car. On todays hi tech engines it's all to easy to just start replacing stuff when it's not always needed. Ian was told many times he HAD to replace the CPS and O2 and electronic thermostat sensors to sort it out. Well no he didn't need to, for now at least.

1) The Camshaft position sensor on a NON VANOS engine (CPS) does nothing more than tell the ECU what cylinder to fire during startup. If it's not working the fuel injection runs batch fire instead of CIFI (Cylinder Individual Fuel Injection) and ONLY during starting. Once the engine is running it's not needed, only used for quicker starting of the 8 cylinder engine.

2) The O2 sensors were really stuffed causing a rediculously rich fuel mixture to the #1 cylinder bank. All I did was unplug the damn things, allowing the ECU to substitute the stochiometrically correct default value of 0.45 V and allow the ECU to calculate an almost perfectly corect mixture from the AFM and temparature reading instead. His cats have been removed so it makes little difference. O2 sensors are primarily there to protect and lengthen the life of the cats. The older M60 engine with no cats came with the O2 sensors missing from the factory and worked fine running on default ECU substituted readings.

3) The engine electronic thermostat. This is a perfectly normal functioning thermostat with an additional heating element that allows +10 Degrees C increase whilst cruising on the highway. This improves fuel economy, but in reality it's only a few percent if even that, and at like 2 grand new cost he can safely drive the car for now as long as the "normal" part of the thermostat is functioning correctly, and for now it is.

 

[Hellas]

:thumbsup: Awesome Rick!

 

[BimmerMan]

1) The Camshaft position sensor on a NON VANOS engine (CPS) does nothing more than tell the ECU what cylinder to fire during startup. If it's not working the fuel injection runs batch fire instead of CIFI (Cylinder Individual Fuel Injection) and ONLY during starting. Once the engine is running it's not needed, only used for quicker starting of the 8 cylinder engine.
(It does more than that Rick...the Camshaft sensor tells the DME exactly when to fire the spark plugs and the injectors...it basically controls the timing...hence why these engines do not have distributors...
Your statement above is more applicable to the CrankShaft sensor)

2) The O2 sensors were really stuffed causing a rediculously rich fuel mixture to the #1 cylinder bank. All I did was unplug the damn things, allowing the ECU to substitute the stochiometrically correct default value of 0.45 V and allow the ECU to calculate an almost perfectly corect mixture from the AFM and temparature reading instead. His cats have been removed so it makes little difference. O2 sensors are primarily there to protect and lengthen the life of the cats. The older M60 engine with no cats came with the O2 sensors missing from the factory and worked fine running on default ECU substituted readings.
(Unplugging sensors and letting the DME run on default values is a fudge. The sensors are there for a reason. You cannot compare an M60 engine to an M62 or M62TU engine...they are very different engines. For example, the general running temp of an M60 is around 80C...the M62 is 108C. At those kind of temperatures, you nead accurate readings from the oxygen sensors to determine the right air/fuel ratio...

3) The engine electronic thermostat. This is a perfectly normal functioning thermostat with an additional heating element that allows +10 Degrees C increase whilst cruising on the highway. This improves fuel economy, but in reality it's only a few percent if even that, and at like 2 grand new cost he can safely drive the car for now as long as the "normal" part of the thermostat is functioning correctly, and for now it is.
(This is a fudge aswell...With the aid of the characteristic map thermostat, the coolant temperature can now be influenced specifically within this operating
range (thermostat control range).
In this way it is possible to set a higher coolant temperature in the partial load range of the engine. Higher operating temperatures
in the partial load range achieve improved combustion, reflected in lower fuel consumption and pollutant emission.
However, higher operating temperatures in the full load range would involve specific disadvantages (ignition timing (angle)
reduction due to knocking). For this reason, lower coolant temperatures are set specifically in the full load range with the aid of the
characteristic map thermostat.)
Read this...BMW M62 Details

 

[rick540]

Chill out dude.......At no point did I say this is the correct fix.

I just mentioned, regardless, I have still dropped Ian's fuel consumption from 25L/100 to 12.5L/100 for now as a temporary fix.

I quote "Over time hopefully we can replace those sensors with new ones, but for now, nothing like making a plan"

The other stuff, yes certainly you are correct

Between the crank and cam sensors I'm not so sure.... The Cam sensor is related to injector timing The cam is geared 2:1 to the engine crank, to use a camshaft sensor to tell the engine exactly when to fire is totally illogical, the crank is directly attached to the pistons, hence the crank sensor is a more accurate source for the firing pulse. Read the instructions for an SMT6 piggyback ECU, they modify the crank pulse not the cam pulse to modify ignition timing, I have used them. To further this DIS has no smooth running test for an M60 as even the crank pulley sensor is not accurate enough, they moved it to the flywheel on the M62 to get accuracy.

But whatever

 

[E39 Ian]

A quick update - fuel consumption has stablised to 12.2L/100km (a mixture of town and open road driving)

I am impressed with the above as it cut my consumption by half!!!! :clap:

I intend changing the sensors - cps and o2 and thge coolant thermostat - as and when budget allows as more fuel savings could be possible and then I will have no codes!!!!!!!!!!!!

However that said - I still think Rick540 is a genius and commend him on making a plan. For this I am evergrateful! :thumbsup: