E36 M3 - A BARGAIN OR A BAG OF PROBLEMS

[Evotheory]

Hi All

I am thinking of buying an e36 M3 from a colleague of mine to use on the track. I am keen to hear your thoughts about buying an M vehicle (that potentially has major issue) if it is priced well below the book value. Before I continue I should highlight that I am one of the “mechanically challenged” forum members - in other words – I am completely reliant on my mechanic to maintain my vehicles because I have absolutely no clue about how to fix/fiddle with an engine.

Now that I have set the stage here is more detail about the vehicle below to (I’ve intentionally limited the points to mechanical and structural issue that I observed):

- 95 model 3.0l (german spec) - to be confirmed.
- Mileage: approximately: 150 000km – No BMW service book or maintenance schedule to verify this.
- it starts after four or five swings (first attempt)
- it pulls ok but smokes on gear changes at about 5000+ revs (black smoke) (not sure if this is normal). I note this while driving behind it.
- I suspect that it has had some body repairs done to it. There is evidence of the vehicle having been involved in a accident rear smash – after looking for a while I found some overspray around the fuel tank rubbers, Also the colour under artificial light is not uniform. Some of the screws on the front fenders have spanner scrape marks on them but the factory seals are still in tact so I am not sure whether it has had front end damage - usually when a vehicle has been in a front end smash the fender to body join is seldom resealed – my observation on most BMW’s, even when repaired by authorized repair centres. The body seems straight. The doors open and close without issue all the panels are aligned and gaps are uniform.
- No rust
- The rear shelf has been cut to accommodate bigger speakers.
- Brakes are OK but will need replacing very soon.
- Original suspension (no after market drops or modification) but the shocks definitely need to be changed.
- Rubbers around the doors (both left and right) torn/worn. Right and left door windows are skew and do not roll up properly.
- no oil leaks (the engine was dirty at the time of viewing. If the engine bay and undercarriage was washed previously I am sure “problem” oil leaks would have reappeared/ revealed themselves …I assume?



I am thinking of offering between R45k and R50k (max R60k) bearing in mind the cost that will have to be incurred in the engine is completely buggered. Please consider the following before commenting:

a. If any repair work is required I will have to pay for it to be done. So lets think of a worst case scenario.
b. I do not intend to make this a showpiece vehicle. I will attend to the essentials such as:
i. The suspension - (nothing too expensive. It will probably be something that okes like Tune Tech will recommend;

ii. Safety – installing a roll-cage;
iii. The engine

to ensure that the car is track worthy.

c. I am not a pro-racer – my track time is limited to about 15 BMW driver training courses (the track course) and the odd “fukc-around” around the track. Building a superior track machine is not my goal (not for now at least) – I just want to get more track time and experience.

The vehicle will be going for an AA assessment later today so I am unable to give more detail/info about the car at this stage.

Based on your experience – will you agree that the bargain price justifies the risk? any other comments, suggestions and recommendations that you might have are welcome.

Regards
Evotheory
Current:
E92 M3 convertible - white
Z4 M coupe – Monaco blue
1990 e30 325i (the old girl) – polaris metalic

 

[calypso]

For a track car that doesnt sound too bad for the money. Those door seals i know are a good few thousand each though.
Not sure sure what the smoke would mean on that engine. Someone with better mechanical knowleage will have to chime in.
Also, if the shocks are buggered chances are that the rest of the suspension is too, so put a few thousand away for bushings and the rest.
Brake pads are very cheap, discs not so much.
You maybe have some pics?

 

[328ii]

For a track car that doesnt sound too bad for the money. Those door seals i know are a good few thousand each though.
Not sure sure what the smoke would mean on that engine. Someone with better mechanical knowleage will have to chime in.
Also, if the shocks are buggered chances are that the rest of the suspension is too, so put a few thousand away for bushings and the rest.
Brake pads are very cheap, discs not so much.
You maybe have some pics?

Can u get the car to a dyno..? Even if U pay for it, it is worth it.

BMW engine should not smoke after only 150000km.

Was the engine at operating temperature..?

Dyno is best test for engine, Air/Fuel ratio - smoke can be rich or incorrect mixture, maybe oil, ECU, etc.

Compression test will also speak volumes

Good luck anyways...

 

[Raybimmer]

Oh shit here is a money pit . Bet your mechanic is going to be happy . Seriously though here is my 2 cents of advice .
Normal theory : black smoke is overfueling ( too much fuel , i.e. air fuel ratio incorrect ) Dyno tune to check air fuel ratio , maybe Air Flow Meter needs replacing .
Blue smoke is oil ( rings or bore wear , leaking valve stem seals , valveguide wear )
Compression test done on warm ( operating temp ) engine all spark plugs removed and all cylinder values noted . Pour about teaspoon of oil into each cylinder and retest compression . If compression values increase after second (wet ) test then ring or bore wear is culprit .If low values on both tests then suspect head or valves .
Get price of brake pads at dealer for reference , you may later want to use upgraded discs and pads .Braided stainless steel brake hoses ( will not expand like rubber hose ) and best brake fluid ( withstands higher temperatures on track ) .
Suspension - could get expensive - put in coilovers for adjustability to set up to your requirements .
Follow your instincts
Good luck .

 

[osiris]

I know this is an old post, but if I can give any advice it would be to stay clear of this car.

When you see a car that you want and it has problems like this you tend to over look them and you think to yourself that it will be cheap to fix or that you can fix it over time!
This is not the way you should think I have made mistakes like this in the past and it is not the right way to do things, My dad spoke to me the other day about how he buys a car.
He will goto a dealership to see a car, he will walk around the car once if he notices rubber seals worn/missing/broken or funny dents and scratches around the car or he opens the door and it rattles or looks dodge he walks away from the car no matter how neat it may seem.

The lesson I have learnt is that if there are a few small problems when you first look at a car then there is 99% of the time a shit load of other problems that you wont see straight away or you will over look because your not thinking rationally. Listen to your gut feeling if it says the car is not right for you then its not and you should walk away from it.

hope this helped.

 

[zaleonardz]

I agree with both osiris and Ray. Even if you get the car for a good price, the only person that should buy something like this even below market value is somebody that is going to do the work themselvs, in their own garage, and even then its going to be expensive.

Its a money pit of note, and you will never be quite finished, there will always be something that needs to be done, it just depends how phycotic you are about your cars.

I would not go that route if you are “mechanically challenged”, and M parts are expensive....

So IMO, E34 540 :thumbsup:

 

[ridshakira]

I know this is an old post, but if I can give any advice it would be to stay clear of this car.

When you see a car that you want and it has problems like this you tend to over look them and you think to yourself that it will be cheap to fix or that you can fix it over time!
This is not the way you should think I have made mistakes like this in the past and it is not the right way to do things, My dad spoke to me the other day about how he buys a car.
He will goto a dealership to see a car, he will walk around the car once if he notices rubber seals worn/missing/broken or funny dents and scratches around the car or he opens the door and it rattles or looks dodge he walks away from the car no matter how neat it may seem.

The lesson I have learnt is that if there are a few small problems when you first look at a car then there is 99% of the time a shit load of other problems that you wont see straight away or you will over look because your not thinking rationally. Listen to your gut feeling if it says the car is not right for you then its not and you should walk away from it.

hope this helped.

This is excellent advice osiris. your dads words are 100%.I have fallen victim to this and still spending till this day to get the car 100%.
once its fixed, i will sell it and when i buy something else, i will use your dads advice...

When we see a car we want we like this :excited:
and when we realize our mistake of buying the car then we go like this :dropjaw::cursin:

and the seller goes like this when you go back to him :dunno:

and then when you get the advice from your dad you go like this :thinking:

and when you read through a thread like this, you go like this :thumbsup:

 

[rodga]

I know this is an old post, but if I can give any advice it would be to stay clear of this car.

When you see a car that you want and it has problems like this you tend to over look them and you think to yourself that it will be cheap to fix or that you can fix it over time!
This is not the way you should think I have made mistakes like this in the past and it is not the right way to do things, My dad spoke to me the other day about how he buys a car.
He will goto a dealership to see a car, he will walk around the car once if he notices rubber seals worn/missing/broken or funny dents and scratches around the car or he opens the door and it rattles or looks dodge he walks away from the car no matter how neat it may seem.

The lesson I have learnt is that if there are a few small problems when you first look at a car then there is 99% of the time a shit load of other problems that you wont see straight away or you will over look because your not thinking rationally. Listen to your gut feeling if it says the car is not right for you then its not and you should walk away from it.

hope this helped.

This is excellent advice osiris. your dads words are 100%.I have fallen victim to this and still spending till this day to get the car 100%.
once its fixed, i will sell it and when i buy something else, i will use your dads advice...

When we see a car we want we like this :excited:
and when we realize our mistake of buying the car then we go like this :dropjaw::cursin:

and the seller goes like this when you go back to him :dunno:

and then when you get the advice from your dad you go like this :thinking:

and when you read through a thread like this, you go like this :thumbsup:

lol, true

 

[zabbo]

+1

 

[Sankekur]

I know this is an old post, but if I can give any advice it would be to stay clear of this car.

When you see a car that you want and it has problems like this you tend to over look them and you think to yourself that it will be cheap to fix or that you can fix it over time!
This is not the way you should think I have made mistakes like this in the past and it is not the right way to do things, My dad spoke to me the other day about how he buys a car.
He will goto a dealership to see a car, he will walk around the car once if he notices rubber seals worn/missing/broken or funny dents and scratches around the car or he opens the door and it rattles or looks dodge he walks away from the car no matter how neat it may seem.

The lesson I have learnt is that if there are a few small problems when you first look at a car then there is 99% of the time a shit load of other problems that you wont see straight away or you will over look because your not thinking rationally. Listen to your gut feeling if it says the car is not right for you then its not and you should walk away from it.

hope this helped.

Very true and very good advice, cars like with most things in life you get what you pay for. Something that seems or is presented as a bargian very rarely is.

 

[Douglas]

Hi

Have you made any decisions on this yet? - I owned an E36 M3 for a brief spell as a track car and opted for something else later. If this purchases is intended as a track car it might have some potential.

A lot of it depends on whether you are planning on keeping the car as a street legal track car or a hard core track car only. If you have no plans on reselling it as a road car then you are likely to strip out the interior for weight saving and change many aspects of the car such as the suspension and brakes in any event. Track cars are expensive full stop!

The engine is a completely different story and you could replace it at a later stage for a stock used M3 engine or go for something different. However if the car has been in an accident that poses some risk as far as a bent chassis etc. is concerned. My E36 had 140,000km's and it still performed very well on track days.

Feel free to PM me and we can chat.

Douglas