e34 525i steering/suspension issue and upgrades

[nirvash]

hey 5 fanatics:=):

i wanted to find out if anyone could shed some light on an issue im having with my 1992 e34 525i,

under hard cornering i am getting a wobble through the steering wheel, basically i will start cornering, then at the apex or where the cornering g's (lol not much) gets to its max or a certain level, i get this sort of shimmy 1 2 wobble (best way to explain it) through the wheel, then as the car settles in the corner and exits its fine, literally just happens at a point in the corner,

havent had time to put the car on a lift yet to check the suspension, just bought the car a week ago,

any idea what it could be?
maybe something sway bar, tie rod related? cant exactly locate it but i guess it feels like its coming through the front as i feel it through the steering wheel,
could it be diff related?

i read somewhere pitman and or drop links?



also, next up....
i love how the e34 drives and handles, but it is very very very soft and body rolls quite a lot, cars characteristics as well as being an old car with worn suspension im sure,
i know these were meant to be comfy cruisers, not track cars, but can you stiffen them up and get rid of some roll?

i would like to at some point do a full suspension refresh, all arms bushes etc, and a nice set of coilovers, aesthetic and function,

my questions are:

- does e34 m5 suspension bolt up no modifications to my 525i?
- i know the rear end subframe and diff are different on the m5 so does this mean that i cant upgrade to m5 rear suspension?
-if i cant upgrade to m5 suspension, what what be another good upgrade in terms of suspension components? meyle HD parts? anything like that?

will coilovers and thicker/bigger anti roll bars sort out the body roll more then anything else?
what else?



i know that that is quite a lot of questions, but would really like to know your guys opinions on any of the above,

such great cars, would really love to give mine the attention it deserves and get it riding as good as possible,

thanks all
excited to hear the replies

 

[zulu]

Hz...changing your anti-rol bars will go a long way towards elimimating the body roll. This would allow you to retain the plush ride but enhance the cornering ability somewhat. Obviously 1st prize is shocks/springs/anti-roll bars....... amongst the e34's, the touring runs the biggest anti-bar ( inc the M5 ). Later

 

[nirvash]

Hz...changing your anti-rol bars will go a long way towards elimimating the body roll. This would allow you to retain the plush ride but enhance the cornering ability somewhat. Obviously 1st prize is shocks/springs/anti-roll bars....... amongst the e34's, the touring runs the biggest anti-bar ( inc the M5 ). Later

thanks for the info!:ty:
i assumed the anti roll bars would make a nice difference, we however didnt get the tourings here in SA though right?

drove the car more today, about 100kms, and that wobble is very noticeable, and can happen almost continuously through a long or particular corner, not like mentioned in the first post just once or twice or at the apex of a corner

 

[zulu]

I recently replaced the links/arms on mine. I'd been experiencing a small shudder under braking at approx 80km/h...quite a well documented issue on these cars. Problem is now sorted.

 

[Sankekur]

Realistically the best upgrades for the suspension would be to replace the anti-roll bars with the ones off the M5, replacing the springs and shock with better aftermarket ones, give moranor a shout regarding this. Regarding springs I would recommend H&R and regrading shocks Koni seems to match them pretty well dynamically.

You can also replace the whole rear subframe with the one from the M5, but then you will have to get the diff as well, this should provide some improvement do to the one addition point of adjustment that it provides. It also provides you will a massive choice is LS units to choose from.

Front suspension you can replace the lower control arms with those from the M5, but it does nothing to the driving dynamics of the car.



You will soon come to realise that the aftermarket options for e34 specific parts is pretty limited here in SA.



Regarding the issue, I can only recommend getting under the car and checking for play in any of the suspension parts. A wheel wobble or shimmy is usually a sign of worn lower controls or bushes. (Though usually manifests when driving at around 80km/h in a straight line) Honestly though I would just replace everything.....it probably needs it in anyway.

 

[Fordkoppie]

As Sank already stated, by this age and mileage, the upper control arms, lower control arms, tie rods, drag link, idler arm and shocks are most likely bust.
Best to replace all of it.
Also, as recommended, a set of H&R springs coupled with Koni shocks and M5 anti roll bars will significantly improve body control. However - remember that this is a big 5 series land yacht, so it will never be as nimble as a similarly equipped 3 series. I have almost every one of those "upgrades" in my 540, and on a track its massive fun, but still far from great.

 

[nirvash]

thanks for the replies @sankekur and @fordkoppie
was hoping you two would add to this thread,

the plan is to replace refresh the entire cars suspension as funds provide, i understand that with a car this old and at that mileage that to expect any sort of good driving characteristics is a bit far fetched,

interesting to here that upgrading to m5 components will only give such a minor improvement,

i dont think i would go through all the hassle of upgrading to an m5 rear subframe diff etc, a lot of work for what you mention minimal gains, may have found a medium case ls diff anyway, 3.23 ratio,

what is the extra point of adjustment on the m5 rear end?


also i know that these cars are not going to be like a 3 series or awesome track weapons without serious modification, i can fell that already, but like you mentioned with you 540i that it is a lot of fun on the track, thats all im after, just to have fun in my car, im no race driver, but have a lot of fun driving

@sankekur
my car does have a slight vague feel, wobble at around 90-100kmph, maybe my speedo just over reads, and it is closer to the 80kmph mark that you mention, thanks

now the big question for me is,

shocks and spring combo or coilovers?
i have read that most coilovers require some sort of cutting and welding to be done to be fitted correctly, could you guys explain?

also i would go for either a koni and h&r setup or a bilstein and h&r setup,
would you recommend bilstein over the konis? also with in mind using h&r springs?

coilovers i would be looking at would be BC racing ones, from the cheaper end of the spectrum, nice thing is you get adjustability, damper rates and height which temps me, would a shock and spring combo work just as well as the coilover in most situations?

thanks

oh, also do meyle have the suspension components for the e34 and where would be a good place to look?

 

[Fordkoppie]

oh, also do meyle have the suspension components for the e34 and where would be a good place to look?

Sean at Axis is your one stop shop :rollsmile:

I am personally not a fan of coilovers on an e34 specifically, because of the cutting and welding you just mentioned. Too much of a risk. If it was a bolt in setup, then sure, but I simply dont trust SA people to weld anything on my suspension.

I like the B8 bilstein more than the Koni, but they are substantially more expensive than the Koni, and I dont think the extra cost is justifiable.

The M5 rear subframe + trailing arms only give you a little adjustment range on toe/camber, where all the others are fixed

The vague feel in the centre is a horrible feature of the steering box. No amount of effort or money will ever solve it. The shimmy will probably disappear when you replace the upper control arms.

If you do get your style-5 17" wheels in time, go for 235/45/17 setup all round.
It will improve the feel a lot, because the standard balloon tyres are for comfort only.

Remember that these cars will chew through tyres and brakes when it comes as much as close to track abuse, because of the weight.





This was after 1 day at the track

 

[Sankekur]

Coilovers would be the best, but as you have stated you need to cut and weld on the struts to get them to work. (Not sure if there are coilover that are a straight fit, but as far as I know any coilover you will have to modify)

Never really looked into it too much as it is not really something I considered, but as far as I know it need to be done due to the way in which the shock fits in a tube in the front strut assembly, and this tube's diameter is too small and it is too deep for coilovers to fit. So it has to be modified, which leads to cutting and welding.
(Result from a quick search: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1505324-My-E34-Touring-coilover-install)


Regarding the combo I would go H&R and Koni.....From what I have read this works very well. Regarding Bilsteins, I have read of quite a few guys that are not happy with how bilsteins feel on the e34's. It is described as the car feeling like it keeps bottoming out. There are apparently springs that do work well with bilsteins, but I seem to recall most if not all are brands not available in SA. (If I am not mistaken one such is Vogtland springs).

 

[nirvash]

@fordkoppie and @sankekur

thanks for the reply,

will speak to sean about the suspension stuff,
got my set of koni's for my 330i from him,

my dad use to own diesel electric here in the western cape so i can get a good deal on the bilstein shocks from him, so may go that route,
also heard that vogtland springs are good but like mentioned you cant get them here, and dont want to import anything atm,
ya i agree that is why i am hesitant about the coilovers, dont know or trust anyone to cut and weld on my suspension components, im a very cautious person when it comes to that stuff

what exactly needs to be cut and welded, the strut housing/carrier?

i realise the vague steering feel related to the steering box as appose to a rack and pinion setup, but what i mentioned was more then that, it is different at a specific speed between 90 - 100 where i get that shimmy,
i guess proper alignment could also be an issue,

thats hectic the tyre wear in you pictures:skit::skit:
hectic, is that on the 540i? im sure that power/torque also has something to do with that, but damn..

i have a set of style 5 reps on the way from east london, got them with used tyres on, 245/40/17 rear 225/45/17 front,
should be a lot better the the current 65 profile:RedNo:

steering box doesnt feel bad mid corner/under load, just on turn in really

wonder how hard it would be to source a m5 subframe and diff...

thanks again

 

[cato3]

hi , we fitted the springs of the m5 on my friend Oscar's 530 v8 with the new shocks [it had e36 m3 wheels ] with new shocks and it made quite a difference on that cars handling , so much so that at high speed through those bends after the tunnel to Worcester , he was never far behind me with my M3 , he also fitted power brake slotted disc with a good brake fluid then that car could stop to. Very good for its size and much fun to drive with a car load of buddies .With his 540 individual I imported a set of mixed yellow and red suspension rubbers that he had fitted last week , and he is raving about the difference it makes , [could be the nearly 8 k spent] , I did not drive the car yet to see the difference with these new rubbers[ every bush from back to front was in the kit.
There is one of the members selling M5 suspension spares in PE , give him a call.

 

[nirvash]

thanks for the info @cato3,
any idea of the guys forum name whoes selling the m5 parts?

 

[warrenk]

thanks for the info @cato3,
any idea of the guys forum name whoes selling the m5 parts?

Hi buddy,
That's me:coolShake:

 

[nirvash]

thanks for the info @cato3,
any idea of the guys forum name whoes selling the m5 parts?

Hi buddy,
That's me:coolShake:

pm sent

 

[Sankekur]

what exactly needs to be cut and welded, the strut housing/carrier?

It is the actual strut assembly where the shock fits that has to be cut.

steering box doesnt feel bad mid corner/under load, just on turn in really

This is why it is wise with the e34, especially in high speed corners, to start the turn in with a small gradual turn in to load the steering box and suspension and then do the actual turn in......if the vague steering wasn't enough the e34 suspension and weight transfer aren't exactly friends.

 

[nirvash]

what exactly needs to be cut and welded, the strut housing/carrier?

It is the actual strut assembly where the shock fits that has to be cut.

steering box doesnt feel bad mid corner/under load, just on turn in really

This is why it is wise with the e34, especially in high speed corners, to start the turn in with a small gradual turn in to load the steering box and suspension and then do the actual turn in......if the vague steering wasn't enough the e34 suspension and weight transfer aren't exactly friends.

thanks!

ya i get what your saying about the steering, makes sense, and yes the steering, suspension and weight transfer make for quite interesting characteristics, a little scary at times

 

[nirvash]

another question guys,

if i change the rear subframe to an m5 one and a large case 3.64 LS diff,
will the drive shaft and side shafts attach and connect without issue or modification?

thanks

 

[Sankekur]

I am pretty sure you will have to change the sideshafts with the subframe, and you will also have to modify your prop as I don't think the type 188 and 210 diff flanges are interchangeable.

 

[nirvash]

I am pretty sure you will have to change the sideshafts with the subframe, and you will also have to modify your prop as I don't think the type 188 and 210 diff flanges are interchangeable.

ah ok, thanks for letting me know

 

[nirvash]

So,
Aluminum control arms cost around R1.2k individually, steel around R800, Meyle items,

Is it really worth it forking out the extra for the ally arms? Correct me If I am wrong but the arms would be part of unsparing weight correct? Being that the ally arms weigh about half that of the steel, what sort of effect would this have on the handling?

Also if I am correct there are 4 arms in the front suspension so it ends up being quite a bit more expensive.....

Budget dictates that I should go steel, but depending on the difference it makes I mite want to go ally....

Advice and input needed please:rollsmile:

Really trying to do things properly on this car but as cost effective as possible