Custom tune, with or without a platform like MHD

[Teezoh]

Hey there everyone.

Ever since Excede sorted out my car for me in December and Ash gave me a ride in his 135 (if you know, you know) I've been having an itch that needs scratching NOW.

So I had a long chat with Ash, I can't proclaim how nice of a guy he is, what we have planned is the following:

XHP Stage 3
Water Meth Install
Custom Map

Now, what I need to decide based on the feedback from Ash is:

1. Go with a custom tune done by Excede, the tune will also be done to not be Meth dependant.
2. The exact same as the above, but we do it with MHD giving me some extra "fool-around" settings and things like a tablet install with car stat displays etc if I should wish to do so.

Why I'm not sure what option to go with:

Going MHD will cost me around 7-8K more and I feel like it could be a waste. I can't source a place that sells the MHD wireless adapter locally. Common sense is telling me that I could much rather add things like 2-step colder plugs as advised by Ash on my previous visit, get my wheels refurbished that have 1 or 2 small curb rashes (Not me btw, got em like it) or even keep the cash aside for the fuel and ethanol after getting the car back. I'm getting a 25l barrel of Meth from Ash with the installation but yet another thing I could keep the cash aside for.

Anyone with any advice as to what route you would go with and why would be appreciated.

*This was meant to be in General, not the Showroom... fml I'm sorry.

 

[General.Massacre]

Hey there everyone.

Ever since Excede sorted out my car for me in December and Ash gave me a ride in his 135 (if you know, you know) I've been having an itch that needs scratching NOW.

So I had a long chat with Ash, I can't proclaim how nice of a guy he is, what we have planned is the following:

XHP Stage 3
Water Meth Install
Custom Map

Now, what I need to decide based on the feedback from Ash is:

1. Go with a custom tune done by Excede, the tune will also be done to not be Meth dependant.
2. The exact same as the above, but we do it with MHD giving me some extra "fool-around" settings and things like a tablet install with car stat displays etc if I should wish to do so.

Why I'm not sure what option to go with:

Going MHD will cost me around 7-8K more and I feel like it could be a waste. I can't source a place that sells the MHD wireless adapter locally. Common sense is telling me that I could much rather add things like 2-step colder plugs as advised by Ash on my previous visit, get my wheels refurbished that have 1 or 2 small curb rashes (Not me btw, got em like it) or even keep the cash aside for the fuel and ethanol after getting the car back. I'm getting a 25l barrel of Meth from Ash with the installation but yet another thing I could keep the cash aside for.

Anyone with any advice as to what route you would go with and why would be appreciated.

*This was meant to be in General, not the Showroom... fml I'm sorry.

Personally speaking from experience, MHD is a great tool for a few factors:
1. Monitoring tool (this is an invaluable point to this post that EVERY car person should have on heir performance car, being ale to log and monitor is very important.)
2. the MHD adaptors can be bought from VAG Cafe, they now sell the universal one, which can be used on E series and F Series, mini, rolles royce etc.
https://www.vagcafe.com/product/mhd-universal-wifi-adapter-obdii-wireless-flash/
3. With the MHD flasher tool, you can flash a Stg0 map, which will allow you to flash the "stock" map, and still select the additional features, ie: Catless DP, Burble, 1m Throttle mapping (N54 cars), and a host of other nice items.
4. you have the option to custom tune with any tuner from all over te world, simply download the map from the car, send it off o a tuner, they send you a updated one and flash to the car as a custom map.


As much as i hear that Xcede has a good reputation, im always uneasy about having my car tuned by tuner, then if there are issues, the car must go back, sit on a roller, figure out what the issue is, or troubleshoot the map, plus the back and forth is time consuming. (I have considered speaking to Xcede about tuning my M6 aswell btw, so its not a hate post.)
Plus in my experience, its very rare, in South Africa anyways, to have a "Custom" tune, its generally a generic tune, change VIN numbers, load it to the car, post tune dyno run, pay and leave, and if it is custom, then most tuners use a tuner outside of SA to do the maps for them, so with a little research im sure you can find a tuner, speak personally with them, and they will help you remotely.

I myself am in 2 minds about the MHD/Tuner option, and still taking the time to decide. im just not a trusting person naturally lol

 

[Morribiscuit]

Question before going further - why only MHD and not BM3?

Irrespective, is your car currently stock?

*Below from a B58 owner with BM3. N55 MHD should be similar-ish.

If so, a custom tune (if legitimately custom), will be great. No doubt. It will be tuned for our climate, care taken, and mapped based on YOUR cars parameters. A custom tune will always be better than OTS.

BUT!

OTS is great. Platforms like BM3 & MHD are very well-known and used extensively. They offer great customisation, and flexibility.
Map switching is such a pleasure, truthfully. You want to run an ETH map, add eth and switch to that map. Back to pump fuel, same thing. Its convenient. Very.

Are you going for records or just want more power?

In terms of cables - wireless adaptors are expensive. So get an ENET cable and an ENET->Usb-c adaptor and away you go - for 1k or under. It connects, flashes super fast, and works every time.

My opinion:

• Fix your rims
• Upgrade your chargepipe (if you haven't already)
• Add meth for cooling (as you plan to already), maybe upgraded IC later
• Go with an OTS tune (MHD/BM3)

If at a later stage you decide you want more, then you simply go with a tuner that uses that platform. i.e. you go to someone who tunes on MHD.

Dala.

 

[Teezoh]

Question before going further - why only MHD and not BM3?

Irrespective, is your car currently stock?

*Below from a B58 owner with BM3. N55 MHD should be similar-ish.

If so, a custom tune (if legitimately custom), will be great. No doubt. It will be tuned for our climate, care taken, and mapped based on YOUR cars parameters. A custom tune will always be better than OTS.

BUT!

OTS is great. Platforms like BM3 & MHD are very well-known and used extensively. They offer great customisation, and flexibility.
Map switching is such a pleasure, truthfully. You want to run an ETH map, add eth and switch to that map. Back to pump fuel, same thing. Its convenient. Very.

Are you going for records or just want more power?

In terms of cables - wireless adaptors are expensive. So get an ENET cable and an ENET->Usb-c adaptor and away you go - for 1k or under. It connects, flashes super fast, and works every time.

My opinion:

• Fix your rims
• Upgrade your chargepipe (if you haven't already)
• Add meth for cooling (as you plan to already), maybe upgraded IC later
• Go with an OTS tune (MHD/BM3)

If at a later stage you decide you want more, then you simply go with a tuner that uses that platform. i.e. you go to someone who tunes on MHD.

Dala.

Not limited to only MHD hey, BM3 would also do, I've seen MHD in person and it's super user-friendly.

Irrespective, is your car currently stock? - Nope, Stage 2 Map by Wulf, CP, DP, BMS Intake

Are you going for records or just want more power? Bit of both

In terms of cables - wireless adaptors are expensive. So get an ENET cable and an ENET->Usb-c adaptor and away you go - for 1k or under. It connects, flashes super fast, and works every time. - Does this also work with their native apps then?

Thanks for the input so far!

 

[Teezoh]

Personally speaking from experience, MHD is a great tool for a few factors:
1. Monitoring tool (this is an invaluable point to this post that EVERY car person should have on heir performance car, being ale to log and monitor is very important.)
2. the MHD adaptors can be bought from VAG Cafe, they now sell the universal one, which can be used on E series and F Series, mini, rolles royce etc.
https://www.vagcafe.com/product/mhd-universal-wifi-adapter-obdii-wireless-flash/
3. With the MHD flasher tool, you can flash a Stg0 map, which will allow you to flash the "stock" map, and still select the additional features, ie: Catless DP, Burble, 1m Throttle mapping (N54 cars), and a host of other nice items.
4. you have the option to custom tune with any tuner from all over te world, simply download the map from the car, send it off o a tuner, they send you a updated one and flash to the car as a custom map.


As much as i hear that Xcede has a good reputation, im always uneasy about having my car tuned by tuner, then if there are issues, the car must go back, sit on a roller, figure out what the issue is, or troubleshoot the map, plus the back and forth is time consuming. (I have considered speaking to Xcede about tuning my M6 aswell btw, so its not a hate post.)
Plus in my experience, its very rare, in South Africa anyways, to have a "Custom" tune, its generally a generic tune, change VIN numbers, load it to the car, post tune dyno run, pay and leave, and if it is custom, then most tuners use a tuner outside of SA to do the maps for them, so with a little research im sure you can find a tuner, speak personally with them, and they will help you remotely.

I myself am in 2 minds about the MHD/Tuner option, and still taking the time to decide. im just not a trusting person naturally lol

I agree about the monitoring tool and how simple the connection is. As for the MHD/Tuner option, I'm also unsure. Ash also said going with a platform is the better choice and so far it seems it is, I'm not afraid of the tuner to be perfectly honest, I'm afraid of myself getting into Forza vibes when I'm bored.

 

[Xcede Performance]

Map switching platforms like MHD, BM3, Ecu-tek are strongly recommended if you want to have the luxury of switching maps by yourself when running different fuel (e.g 95ron vs E30).

They also have a great platform for data logging and put the user in more control.

With one of the above platforms a new map can be sent to you and loaded from wherever in the country you are.

If you only require a single map and don't require the other benefits that these tuning platforms offer then it's best to go with a one single custom map loaded via obd port using conventional tuning tools like you have now.


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[General.Massacre]

Map switching platforms like MHD, BM3, Ecu-tek are strongly recommended if you want to have the luxury of switching maps by yourself when running different fuel (e.g 95ron vs E30).

They also have a great platform for data logging and put the user in more control.

With one of the above platforms a new map can be sent to you and loaded from wherever in the country you are.

If you only require a single map and don't require the other benefits that these tuning platforms offer then it's best to go with a one single custom map loaded via obd port using conventional tuning tools like you have now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honest answer and not pushing product down anyones throat, i can respect that...

 

[NAS325ci]

Mhd is cool have it on my n55 and n54 but on n55 I think bm3 is better for just being able to sell it or transfer the licenses when you sell the car. So your recover some cash.

I just stuck to mhd as that's what I'm comfortable using.

I have a wifi dongle I use on mhd pm me if you want to know more about it.

 

[KarshS]

MHD stacked with a proper Xcede Custom tune is my vote.

 

[Teezoh]

@Morribiscuit This is what I'm looking for yeah? https://autotools.co.za/product/bmw...upports-f-series-and-mhd/?gad_source=1&gclid=

@NAS325ci Regarding MHD, If I get the software and cable etc, I foresee 1 problem, just help me if I'm wrong. If I get it and run it on my phone I'll have to hand my phone over to the tuner for a custom tune to be done and if I let the tuner get MHD etc and pay them, I'll need to go to them in order to have any settings or adjustments made everytime? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Xcede Performance]

The tuner does not need your phone or login details if you going the MHD route.

You generate a stock bin and can WhatsApp/email it to the tuner.

The tuner then sends back the map and you load it on the car, then run data logs and send those to the tuner, the process will repeat depending on how many revisons are done. You remain in full control of your device and can be anywhere in the world with no need to physically visit the tuner.

At no given time does the tuner need to touch your phone or know your even know your login details for that matter (unless the car is with tuner then they would need the just the login details)

You can buy the MHD License yourself as there's no benefit for the tuner to buy since MHD doesn't have a dealer portal like BM3 does.



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[Teezoh]

The tuner does not need your phone or login details if you going the MHD route.

You generate a stock bin and can WhatsApp/email it to the tuner.

The tuner then sends back the map and you load it on the car, then run data logs and send those to the tuner, the process will repeat depending on how many revisons are done. You remain in full control of your device and can be anywhere in the world with no need to physically visit the tuner.

At no given time does the tuner need to touch your phone or know your even know your login details for that matter (unless the car is with tuner then they would need the just the login details)

You can buy the MHD License yourself as there's no benefit for the tuner to buy since MHD doesn't have a dealer portal like BM3 does.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for this The tuner in this case will be you guys.

So basically when I drop the car off for the water meth install the custom tune can be done for it too by you guys if I understand correctly. I'll relay back to Ash first thing next week to get everything in place then, thanks a bunch for the help yeah!

 

[Morribiscuit]

@Morribiscuit This is what I'm looking for yeah? https://autotools.co.za/product/bmw...upports-f-series-and-mhd/?gad_source=1&gclid=

@NAS325ci Regarding MHD, If I get the software and cable etc, I foresee 1 problem, just help me if I'm wrong. If I get it and run it on my phone I'll have to hand my phone over to the tuner for a custom tune to be done and if I let the tuner get MHD etc and pay them, I'll need to go to them in order to have any settings or adjustments made everytime? Am I understanding this correctly?

Rather look for Enet (ethernet). RJ45 connector.

 

[Xcede Performance]

Thanks for this The tuner in this case will be you guys.

So basically when I drop the car off for the water meth install the custom tune can be done for it too by you guys if I understand correctly. I'll relay back to Ash first thing next week to get everything in place then, thanks a bunch for the help yeah!

Yes that's correct, Ashley will do all the logging etc.

You just collect the car and enjoy


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[Sherwin@xcede]

Plus in my experience, its very rare, in South Africa anyways, to have a "Custom" tune, its generally a generic tune, change VIN numbers, load it to the car, post tune dyno run, pay and leave, and if it is custom, then most tuners use a tuner outside of SA to do the maps for them, so with a little research im sure you can find a tuner, speak personally with them, and they will help you remotely.

Hi GM, there are some elements of truth in your post, but I must respectfully disagree on some points.

I have been tuning since 2007. The custom tune from Xcede is a custom tune, on the dyno with hundreds of variables logged on every iteration of the map until we are happy with the health, safety, and performance as seen in the live logs from both the dyno and the road. So it is not a "copy" from another VIN. I don't know what other tuners do, but I know a lot of them and they also follow the same logic that we do, to be honest.

2ndly, getting a remote overseas tuner is not necessarily going to be better. We have a unique set of circumstances down here on the dark continent of Africa, and those situated on the rarified atmosphere of the highveld have an extra layer of complexity to tune for. So it's normally best to get a tuner that is well versed in the techniques for tuning in the conditions the car will be run at.

Below is a comparison of our custom tuning vs an OTS map:

https://www.facebook.com/XcedePerformance/posts/pfbid02RsXTfxi1CsJbZVfTEQ4GrHBtaQjEhWYV91ioyB2hcMXzhvcEXUoTGUWcdVkEam6bl

 

[General.Massacre]

Hi GM, there are some elements of truth in your post, but I must respectfully disagree on some points.

I have been tuning since 2007. The custom tune from Xcede is a custom tune, on the dyno with hundreds of variables logged on every iteration of the map until we are happy with the health, safety, and performance as seen in the live logs from both the dyno and the road. So it is not a "copy" from another VIN. I don't know what other tuners do, but I know a lot of them and they also follow the same logic that we do, to be honest.

2ndly, getting a remote overseas tuner is not necessarily going to be better. We have a unique set of circumstances down here on the dark continent of Africa, and those situated on the rarified atmosphere of the highveld have an extra layer of complexity to tune for. So it's normally best to get a tuner that is well versed in the techniques for tuning in the conditions the car will be run at.

Below is a comparison of our custom tuning vs an OTS map:

https://www.facebook.com/XcedePerformance/posts/pfbid02RsXTfxi1CsJbZVfTEQ4GrHBtaQjEhWYV91ioyB2hcMXzhvcEXUoTGUWcdVkEam6bl

Thanks for the feedback Sherwin, and yes i am aware that you do tunes and custom software, i was talking in general, and not saying all tuners do this, my experience in the past is that most (not all) tuners, outsource their tunes to tuners overseas, and then receive it back, load it, and run the car, then send the logs and tune back to the tuner, and so it becomes a back and forth game where the Local Tuner actually does not do the tuning.

I reached out to you some time ago when i had my 335i about tuning to ask about your custom tunes, and if i could visit and watch you actually tune a car in front of me so i can see how its done from you end, but i got no response on the matter. (Call it trust issues where id rather see the person im going to be trusting my expensive car with, do the work he is saying he can do).
I know you have a good reputation with the forum. and although i understand tuning principles, and have done some basic tuning to a degree on the 335i when i had it, i can openly admit i dont really know what im doing to do anything myself. so some questions are always nice to be asked to an actual tuner for context and understanding, and not all covered in a veil of secrecy. which in all fairness makes me uneasy.
Im all for the "Trade Secrets" when it comes to tuning, but its all one in the same, some just have more experience than others.

Id still like to see a tune being done in person (The actual table adjustments, Boost, AFR, PID Timing etc, not jus the loading and dyno run).

Thank you for your response.

 

[Teezoh]

Hi GM, there are some elements of truth in your post, but I must respectfully disagree on some points.

I have been tuning since 2007. The custom tune from Xcede is a custom tune, on the dyno with hundreds of variables logged on every iteration of the map until we are happy with the health, safety, and performance as seen in the live logs from both the dyno and the road. So it is not a "copy" from another VIN. I don't know what other tuners do, but I know a lot of them and they also follow the same logic that we do, to be honest.

2ndly, getting a remote overseas tuner is not necessarily going to be better. We have a unique set of circumstances down here on the dark continent of Africa, and those situated on the rarified atmosphere of the highveld have an extra layer of complexity to tune for. So it's normally best to get a tuner that is well versed in the techniques for tuning in the conditions the car will be run at.

Below is a comparison of our custom tuning vs an OTS map:

https://www.facebook.com/XcedePerformance/posts/pfbid02RsXTfxi1CsJbZVfTEQ4GrHBtaQjEhWYV91ioyB2hcMXzhvcEXUoTGUWcdVkEam6bl

Hey and thanks for your feedback here! Truly appreciated.

At the end of the day from the feedback given here (leaning towards MHD) both me and Ashley decided to rather go the custom tune route by Xcede for a few reasons and I'll list them below:

Going MHD will cost you around 8K extra if you still want a custom tune since you buy the pack and then require a custom tune to be done, not listing the tuner fee, that's purely MHD cost. If you're fine with OTS maps that's fine I guess since it does give you more power (I have a Stage 2 OTS map now) but no 2 cars are alike and personally I'm not one for the added pops and bangs settings you get to play around with. We are also adding the Meth kit to the car and since MHD has no Meth check ready on their OTS maps since they can't have any idea how big or small your nozzles are, your mixture ratio etc you're not gonna get one.

Car is booked for this coming Monday and will spend a few days with Xcede, super excited!

 

[Sherwin@xcede]

Thanks for the feedback Sherwin, and yes i am aware that you do tunes and custom software, i was talking in general, and not saying all tuners do this, my experience in the past is that most (not all) tuners, outsource their tunes to tuners overseas, and then receive it back, load it, and run the car, then send the logs and tune back to the tuner, and so it becomes a back and forth game where the Local Tuner actually does not do the tuning.

I reached out to you some time ago when i had my 335i about tuning to ask about your custom tunes, and if i could visit and watch you actually tune a car in front of me so i can see how its done from you end, but i got no response on the matter. (Call it trust issues where id rather see the person im going to be trusting my expensive car with, do the work he is saying he can do).
I know you have a good reputation with the forum. and although i understand tuning principles, and have done some basic tuning to a degree on the 335i when i had it, i can openly admit i dont really know what im doing to do anything myself. so some questions are always nice to be asked to an actual tuner for context and understanding, and not all covered in a veil of secrecy. which in all fairness makes me uneasy.
Im all for the "Trade Secrets" when it comes to tuning, but its all one in the same, some just have more experience than others.

Id still like to see a tune being done in person (The actual table adjustments, Boost, AFR, PID Timing etc, not jus the loading and dyno run).

Thank you for your response.

Hi you welcome to come watch the process, many fanatics members have. You don't have to ask for permission. In fact anyone that books their car in is welcome to watch the process. Some guys go live on social media for most of the process.

 

[Chris125iguy]

Hi you welcome to come watch the process, many fanatics members have. You don't have to ask for permission. In fact anyone that books their car in is welcome to watch the process. Some guys go live on social media for most of the process.

Lol have you heard from him since?

 

[General.Massacre]

Lol have you heard from him since?

Yea i went to Xcede with the M6 to have a meet and greet with Sherwin, as well as do a health check, no tuning was being done due to loadshedding. but had a good chat with Sherwin, knowledgeable guy