Clicking starter diagnostics

[nazzeem]

I have a 1994 E36 318i auto with a 318is engine. I would say about half the time the starter only clicks, but not turn.

I got a new battery last week as mine died and the week before that fitted a relay at starter as sometimes nothing will happen when starting with key. i had to open the bonnet and short the starter with flat screw driver. This does not happen anymore.

Now half the time it only clicks. After 2-3 sometimes 4 tries it works. I have checked a few things that may or may not be part of the issue.

With engine off the voltage on battery is about 11.7v. it should be 12.2-12.6v. This voltage is the same on starter and the battery jump terminal in front with engine off.

When starting the car, the voltage at the same places remain the same when revving to 2000rpm. The cable at the back of alternator measures 14.5v at about 2000rpm.

The alternator is a bosch 90(not sure which number is the model). Not sure if the regulator / brushes should be replaced just in case? But the output seems good and within spec meaning between 13-14.5v?

From what I can see regarding the voltage. Not sure if the thick cable from alternator runs directly to the starter thereby going straight to the battery? If this is the case, I think this cable needs to be replaced? It looks like a braided cable. Are those not normally used for earth?

I do not think this is related to the clicking issue and if the lower voltage is normal. I tested by connecting powerpack to my battery and it clicked once and turned on the second try.

What would be my next step? The starters brushes were also replaced about 3 weeks ago.

 

[Maljan]

You have certainly covered all the basics. If the battery is not charging up enough, it would die and the car wouldn't run. If the car starts on the fourth try then there must enough juice to go round.

Replacing the voltage regulator might not fix the problem, but it is worth doing since if it is still the original it is on the way out anyway. I had to do it on my E46 the other day.

Perhaps the new relay is a dud. Unlikely but not impossible. OTOH it might be an earth thing, worth checking them once more?

 

[danieljames]

I assume you've replaced the solenoid already. I have the same issue with my e36. It is completely random but will usually start first time in the morning. At random occasions there's almost a hesitation...The solenoid will click and half a second later the starter will spin up.(I must state though that I have a pirate solenoid currently fitted which could possibly be the suspect). I have no starter relays etc and my battery voltage is 12.6v while the car is off. When she's idling the voltage across the battery is 14.45v. No real input as to your problem but maybe these values can direct u in some way. Would love to see this thread progress

 

[Maljan]

I assume that Nazzeem meant solenoid when he said "relay at starter."

 

[nazzeem]

I assume that Nazzeem meant solenoid when he said "relay at starter."

No I meant relay. As far as I know my car does not have a starter relay. When they get a bit old it is a common issue that when trying to crank using ignition nothing at all happens, but when shorting the solenoid to the power it starts fine. Fitting a relay on the starter is a easy fix for this.

No I did not fit a new solenoid yet.

The issue I completely random. Cold or hot.

The only thing I noticed is that the cranking is a bit lazy. I think it's because of the low voltage. After fitting the new battery it was good for a while.

 

[danieljames]

I assume that Nazzeem meant solenoid when he said "relay at starter."

No I meant relay. As far as I know my car does not have a starter relay. When they get a bit old it is a common issue that when trying to crank using ignition nothing at all happens, but when shorting the solenoid to the power it starts fine. Fitting a relay on the starter is a easy fix for this.

I've heard this to. only problem is that me and relays haven't met yet....I'm technically minded but relays baffle me lol

 

[Maljan]

I assume that Nazzeem meant solenoid when he said "relay at starter."

No I meant relay. As far as I know my car does not have a starter relay. When they get a bit old it is a common issue that when trying to crank using ignition nothing at all happens, but when shorting the solenoid to the power it starts fine. Fitting a relay on the starter is a easy fix for this.

No I did not fit a new solenoid yet.

The issue I completely random. Cold or hot.

The only thing I noticed is that the cranking is a bit lazy. I think it's because of the low voltage. After fitting the new battery it was good for a while.

My bad. :sorry:

But now that solenoid looks like the culprit. It would be worthwhile checking that it kicks in every time that power is applied.

Another possibility is that it is time to invoke the guarantee that new battery. But that old voltage regulator remains on the list of suspects.

The trouble with these things is that it comes down to a process of elimination. Unfortunately one has to take out the wallet at every step of the way. Repair shops love doing it.

 

[nazzeem]

I assume that Nazzeem meant solenoid when he said "relay at starter."

No I meant relay. As far as I know my car does not have a starter relay. When they get a bit old it is a common issue that when trying to crank using ignition nothing at all happens, but when shorting the solenoid to the power it starts fine. Fitting a relay on the starter is a easy fix for this.

No I did not fit a new solenoid yet.

The issue I completely random. Cold or hot.

The only thing I noticed is that the cranking is a bit lazy. I think it's because of the low voltage. After fitting the new battery it was good for a while.

My bad. :sorry:

But now that solenoid looks like the culprit. It would be worthwhile checking that it kicks in every time that power is applied.

Another possibility is that it is time to invoke the guarantee that new battery. But that old voltage regulator remains on the list of suspects.

The trouble with these things is that it comes down to a process of elimination. Unfortunately one has to take out the wallet at every step of the way. Repair shops love doing it.

Yes will have to sort out that voltage first. But does the clicking not mean that the solenoid is kicking the bendix, but the armitcher does not turn? Usually if this happens continuously a few knocks with hammer gets it turning again?

 

[danieljames]

I assume that Nazzeem meant solenoid when he said "relay at starter."

No I meant relay. As far as I know my car does not have a starter relay. When they get a bit old it is a common issue that when trying to crank using ignition nothing at all happens, but when shorting the solenoid to the power it starts fine. Fitting a relay on the starter is a easy fix for this.

No I did not fit a new solenoid yet.

The issue I completely random. Cold or hot.

The only thing I noticed is that the cranking is a bit lazy. I think it's because of the low voltage. After fitting the new battery it was good for a while.

My bad. :sorry:

But now that solenoid looks like the culprit. It would be worthwhile checking that it kicks in every time that power is applied.

Another possibility is that it is time to invoke the guarantee that new battery. But that old voltage regulator remains on the list of suspects.

The trouble with these things is that it comes down to a process of elimination. Unfortunately one has to take out the wallet at every step of the way. Repair shops love doing it.

Yes will have to sort out that voltage first. But does the clicking not mean that the solenoid is kicking the bendix, but the armitcher does not turn? Usually if this happens continuously a few knocks with hammer gets it turning again?

True....but if I recall correctly the circuit is completed through the solenoid(I'm not 100% about this). Haven't looked at my starter in a while coz it's such a bitch to get out.

 

[nazzeem]

I assume that Nazzeem meant solenoid when he said "relay at starter."

No I meant relay. As far as I know my car does not have a starter relay. When they get a bit old it is a common issue that when trying to crank using ignition nothing at all happens, but when shorting the solenoid to the power it starts fine. Fitting a relay on the starter is a easy fix for this.

No I did not fit a new solenoid yet.

The issue I completely random. Cold or hot.

The only thing I noticed is that the cranking is a bit lazy. I think it's because of the low voltage. After fitting the new battery it was good for a while.

My bad. :sorry:

But now that solenoid looks like the culprit. It would be worthwhile checking that it kicks in every time that power is applied.

Another possibility is that it is time to invoke the guarantee that new battery. But that old voltage regulator remains on the list of suspects.

The trouble with these things is that it comes down to a process of elimination. Unfortunately one has to take out the wallet at every step of the way. Repair shops love doing it.

Yes will have to sort out that voltage first. But does the clicking not mean that the solenoid is kicking the bendix, but the armitcher does not turn? Usually if this happens continuously a few knocks with hammer gets it turning again?

True....but if I recall correctly the circuit is completed through the solenoid(I'm not 100% about this). Haven't looked at my starter in a while coz it's such a bitch to get out.

Yes the solenoid when activated completes the circuit to the armature.

 

[danieljames]

I was advised to fit a genuine Bosch part. I think that's a good start

 

[nazzeem]

I was advised to fit a genuine Bosch part. I think that's a good start

You mean the solenoid?

 

[danieljames]

^^Yes sir

 

[nazzeem]

Well this is embarrassing.

On Sunday on my way back from Cape Town on the N1, I noticed a huge decrease in power. And then when taking off it felt as if the gearbox were stuck in 2nd or 3rd gear. So taking off and climbing a 500m hill seem to take forever to reach 80kmph.

Much later I were looking to check the auto box oil, but learnt theres no dipstick. It would startup and rev fine when standing still which led me to think about gearbox issues.

Later I got in the car again to check it out. It was almost dark already. Switched on and tried cranking and nothing. The dash lit up, but to cranking. I opened the bonnet and felt the wires on starter. They were a bit loose. I lifted the small one so that it were a bit tighter. The car started and I drove around the block. No problem. Later on my way home the same thing happened. Engine lost power etc. I was almost sure now that those loose wires were the cause of gearbox problems.

The next morning (yesterday) I disconnected battery and started checking the starters cables. They were both loose. The one had a 12mm nut and the smaller one a 10mm. I changed the 12mm for 13mm I could remove both nuts just about by hand, thats how loose they were.

I tightened up everything and reconnected battery. Voltage was about 11.4V. Connected the powerpack and started first time without that clicking issue.

I drove about 20km and pulled off the road. Opened bonnet and checked voltage with on idle and about 2000rpm at the jumper terminal . It was about 14.5V as it should be. Much higher could be an issue as far as I know. I switched off the car and checked battery voltage in the boot. It was about 12.5V about 98% fully charged. 12.6V is full as far as I know.

I started the car. No clicking and quick start. Until now I started about 7-12 times without clicking. What a relieve. Everything was as it should be.

So it turned out to be very embarrassing as in all my research the first points mentioned is always to check all power cables and grounds etc. before wanting to replace starters etc.

I had no idea loose power cables could affect the automatic gearbox so bad as well. It was like pulling away in 3rd gear.

My battery also dies a week ago and replaced it with a decent Royal 72Ah.

 

[danieljames]

Glad you got that sorted chap

 

[Maljan]

Good to hear it was so easy. Just goes to show, that the basics in car trouble hasn't changed much. A loose battery cable has stranded many a car over the years!

It once happened to me in a Jetta VR6 I was rocking at the time. The car just cut out and coasted to a halt. All that was required was tightening the battery cable and I was on my way. Of course, it wasn't that simple. It was in peak hour traffic. Cell phones had not been invented yet (not the GSM ones we have now anyway but I digress). A kind VW mechanic made the diagnosis, but I had to walk to the dealership first.