BMW : New vs Old?

[Stompie]

Hozit guys,

So perhaps we can have a little discussion this Friday regarding new BMW's and older BMW's and the quality...

This is just something ive been picking up on while browsing this forum and thought it would be nice to get everyone's view seeing that im still pretty new to BMW's.

It seems to me that the newer BMW's have way more issues compared to BMW's from a couple years back pre 2010ish? I regularly see newish BMW's with low kms giving a range of issues from rattles to engine issues etc and it also seems like there is a pattern on the F30's? i could be wrong?

For instance, my boss bought a brand new 2018 320i shadow-line something and its one of the last 320's they made. In the first week, he had major rattles on the car and he took it back to BMW only to be told that they will stick some tape over the door rubbers to resolve the issue or will sand off the rubbers cause they are glossy which is causing the rattle? (They eventually fixed the issue). He was told that PLENTY of customers are complaining about the rattles on the same model according to the driver that brought my boss to our office that day.

My 120d 2006 model has 170k on the clock now and doesn't have any rattles or other issues probably other than wear and tear items but currently as it sits i have no issues, doors are still firm and solid when closing them, interior looks brand new and everything works on the car.

So what are your opinions regarding today's BMW's? lets say 2010 up wards? or am i just imagining things?

 

[Preshen14]

Not only BMW, many other performance cars.

Due to regulations, costs and performance, cars are built in a different way. Does not always mean better as they go along.

For example, The V8 M was a 4.0 Normal aspirated monster. The newer M3 was cut down to a 3.0litre Turbo car.

The M5 was cut from V10 to V8. Due to regulations and production costs.

The V8 M3 was 309kw, the new one had to be faster, yet they used a smaller motor and boosted it to get 330kw, somewhere around there.

Back then BMW made NA engines go befocked. Bigger engine, well balanced. Now they have to cut down engine sizes and boost their cars.

The F30 has less cylinders than an E90 320i. The E90 320i is a donkey, yet the F30 is much much faster. There is too much of cutting down nowadays. Too much electronics used to get it to where they want.

I like some of the new BMW's, but for me from E90/92/93 series going down, that was the best built beamers.

 

[Tjoppies]

agreed.

perhaps biased towards the older models cause i grew up in the E46 era , and own a 330i.

but would not BUY a new bmw, if i won 1 or somebody GAVE it to me yes...lol

wouldnt do anything post E90.

 

[Stompie]

agreed.

perhaps biased towards the older models cause i grew up in the E46 era , and own a 330i.

but would not BUY a new bmw, if i won 1 or somebody GAVE it to me yes...lol

wouldnt do anything post E90.

LOL was thinking along the same lines, They are beautiful cars but the amount of small issues i see guys are having is hectic.

 

[TurboLlew]

I think the new ones are far more complex and hence more will go wrong. Those with the joint venture Peugeot motors must be avoided like the plague (I will gladly spend a bunch of money on preventative maintenance on an E60 M5, but on a 316 or 318 or 320 it makes no sense IMHO)

Quality wise I've seen numerous issues on newer cars. Mate recently replaced his 320i with a brand new one (for the new motor mostly) and there are small things that show the corners are being cut (eg: sills at the rear doors are not present at the rear in the new one despite it having almost identical boxes ticked). Came with mis-matched mirrors (Brand new car). The gloss trim fix for the squeaking is being applied for those who complain and involves removing the trim and spraying the back matte, I've heard.

I can't bring myself to like the 'standard' leather (be it bonded or outright fake) in any of the new luxury cars especially at the prices you pay. The plastics have to have a certain percentage recycled material and IMHO that is part of the reason they feel and smell the way they do on the entry and mid-range models.

Older cars were certainly built differently, with more virgin materials, better paint (though worse for the environment), less complex and stressed motors (also worse for the environment depending on which research you believe) etc.

We are in a concentrated pool of BMW and perhaps Mini owners here. Mercs of a certain age can go on forever but these days suffer as badly if not worse from quality issues. Audi used to be considered excellent in terms of interior quality but now that (again arguably) only holds true for special models and even then, after you tick multiple expensive boxes.

Meanwhile, all of them (japs too) are competing with Koreans who have improved in quality and the 'veneer of sophistication'... certainly looking the part but under the skin are extremely basic. Explaining to a lay person (or even someone who is just plain cash strapped) why they should spend more on your car which also has less space due to its layout is becoming ever more difficult

I don't buy into the idea that cars are now only designed to last 100000km. If that was the case, there wouldn't be dealers offering contracts to 200000km in other parts of the world (would be a massive risk) and neither would you be able to extend your plan economically or perhaps even at all if this was the case. However, R500K certainly doesn't get you what it used to in terms of quality... The attitude and approach of our local dealers needs to change (and it will if prices continue to increase and they are forced to get more support from older owners)

 

[graan13]

My 2c's worth.....
My father had an e30 325 - solid, no rattles (other than things he had lose in the boot - haha) hugely reliable. He then went to an e36 318 and some 25 years later still has it!! It has done over 300k kms and was subjected to the Natal south coast and now lives outside in Plett. Still goes well and although he can no longer look after it as he used to being 80 yrs old it is not bad in terms of rattles - in fact there are non to speak of really. The head lining has fallen away but nothing else....
I have had numerous e46 330's and never had issues or rattles. Also had 2 e39's, one 528 and one M5, also never any rattle or any reliability issues.
Had a e90 330 and it rattled somewhere in the dash and the sunroof from day 1, never was able to sort either out and after the e39's was disappointed with it and got rid of it for an e60 530d msport. Awesome again and solid - not quite in my view as solid as the e39 but not far off, never had rattles or reliability issues and consequently I have another one currently, also no rattles/squeaks etc.

In my opinion the e46 and e39 were definately the best built and solid as tanks, hence there are so many of them still on the roads in comparison to other makes that were their competitors at the time.

I know a chap who has worked for BMW for 20 yrs plus and is a customer relationship manager at Menlyn and he has shown me the build quality of the newer models and recons they are no where near as well built as the older cars......

Food for thought..........

 

[Dirtydeedsman]

Accountants and Tree huggers are the reasons cars are loosing their souls these days.

Same thing Clarkson mentioned on old Top Gear, The relentless war on speed, efforts to save the environment and cutting costs above all else will lead to the death of the petrol head as we all know it. Soon we will be driving in Euro boxes that do no more than 75mph because it pleases polar bears. :blueCry:

Very sad indeed.

 

[SylisM]

@TurboLlew & @graan13, :bravo: well said.

 

[cOlDFuSiOn]

Remember to keep in mind, older cars were built to last as that was the selling point in those days. Buy a BMW for life and surely you could.

Consumerism together with all other factors mentioned is why we have what we have. Also don't forget 90% of all the new BMWs on the road are likely leased on the 3 year buy back option... People don't buy cars to last anymore, they buy them to impress. Endless money game they are playing as well and BMW knows this so they build the cars to last (maybe) until the MP expires..

My 2c as well..

 

[TurboLlew]

Remember to keep in mind, older cars were built to last as that was the selling point in those days. Buy a BMW for life and surely you could.

Consumerism together with all other factors mentioned is why we have what we have. Also don't forget 90% of all the new BMWs on the road are likely leased on the 3 year buy back option... People don't buy cars to last anymore, they buy them to impress. Endless money game they are playing as well and BMW knows this so they build the cars to last (maybe) until the MP expires..

My 2c as well..

I think people have always bought cars to impress to some degree and this has increased over the past 10-15 years. Also I've seen bizarre things like people buying brand new rubbish cars and replacing perfectly good paid up older luxury cars because they 'need something new'. I think 90% of luxury cars out there now are, to your point, for the purposes of creating an 'impression with clients' or family, or the ladies etc etc. The lease option is a band aid (and probably the last one available to banks and manufacturers) that again probably 90% of people should NOT be taking. Everyone says that "everyone leases in the US"... and people listen because the US is a bastion of financial and ethical good practice right :roflol: Also rich people don't finance rapidly depreciating cars... damn right... they buy them cash and hold on to them longer than 3 years. Possibly why the 5, 6 and 7 still feel alot 'better' than the 3 quality wise. Just a theory.

Since this has been punted for a couple of years now, my theory is that this is the year that will be like 2013/4 (guys 'burnt' by residuals they didn't understand) where every other day features a butthurt post about how they were robbed and BMW/Merc/Audi is not honouring the buy back because they have bought too little mileage, return the car in crap condition or have had it repaired at non ARCs.

Any day now...

 

[Fruks]

However, R500K certainly doesn't get you what it used to in terms of quality...

this is a very good point......a 3/A4/C today doesnt have the same level of quality as before

 

[TurboLlew]

However, R500K certainly doesn't get you what it used to in terms of quality...

this is a very good point......a 3/A4/C today doesnt have the same level of quality as before

To add, people confuse features and looks with quality

 

[RAArmstrong]

The thing for me is this...

The older BMW's invoke this burning passion in a lot of us and these cars generally have a massive following. Put it this way. The E46 has a MASSIVE global following vs the F30. Yes the F30 has been around a lot less, so it remains to be seen how this changes in say 5 or 8 years.

For me personally... My passion for BMW comes from the E39 and I was lucky enough to own a remarkably clean one that sadly came to an untimely end.

Since then I've owned some much newer BMW's and I have this to say... After owning the newer generations of BMW... I couldn't daily an E39 again... You get so used to having a lot more tech at your fingertips that just makes life that little bit easier. From a drive ability point of view, you cannot compare new and old. The E60 compared to the E39 was lightyears ahead in terms of how it delivered its power, how it handled, comfort etc...

 

[cOlDFuSiOn]

Remember to keep in mind, older cars were built to last as that was the selling point in those days. Buy a BMW for life and surely you could.

Consumerism together with all other factors mentioned is why we have what we have. Also don't forget 90% of all the new BMWs on the road are likely leased on the 3 year buy back option... People don't buy cars to last anymore, they buy them to impress. Endless money game they are playing as well and BMW knows this so they build the cars to last (maybe) until the MP expires..

My 2c as well..

I think people have always bought cars to impress to some degree and this has increased over the past 10-15 years. Also I've seen bizarre things like people buying brand new rubbish cars and replacing perfectly good paid up older luxury cars because they 'need something new'. I think 90% of luxury cars out there now are, to your point, for the purposes of creating an 'impression with clients' or family, or the ladies etc etc. The lease option is a band aid (and probably the last one available to banks and manufacturers) that again probably 90% of people should NOT be taking. Everyone says that "everyone leases in the US"... and people listen because the US is a bastion of financial and ethical good practice right :roflol: Also rich people don't finance rapidly depreciating cars... damn right... they buy them cash and hold on to them longer than 3 years. Possibly why the 5, 6 and 7 still feel alot 'better' than the 3 quality wise. Just a theory.

Since this has been punted for a couple of years now, my theory is that this is the year that will be like 2013/4 (guys 'burnt' by residuals they didn't understand) where every other day features a butthurt post about how they were robbed and BMW/Merc/Audi is not honouring the buy back because they have bought too little mileage, return the car in crap condition or have had it repaired at non ARCs.

Any day now...

I honestly feel that higher engine spec/M cars are still built well. The models which shift the most numbers are the ones where the savings are obviously enough to show good financial gains when the cars are built with more cost effective parts/less time spent on assembly..

I can compare my F30 320d vs the 335i, the 320d had some weird things wrong which one would never of expected from a BMW! My 335i I cannot really fault, is it perfect, definately not. Is it built better than my 320d was, yes it is!