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Future of RSA
30-06-2018, 10:42 AM
Post: #1
Future of RSA
Hi guys, a gloomy post.

I often feel things are just going to shit in RSA. There’s always bad news. Endless Crime. Collapsing currency. Increasing taxes. Foreign investment withdrawal. Junk status Etc
I can’t even start naming how many people I know that have emigrated.

I know there are some positives. But what’s the future ?
How do some of you feel?
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30-06-2018, 11:47 AM
Post: #2
Future of RSA
Future looks bleak, we can only wait till after next years election to see if there will be any positive focus, for now it’s all about the votes .


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30-06-2018, 12:46 PM
Post: #3
Future of RSA
Yeah it looks bleak but I'm still positive that in the end things will work out.

Its only a small percentage of useless pricks that somehow convinces a group of mindless people to do something stupid or convince them that other people are directly responsible for their immediate situation...



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30-06-2018, 12:50 PM
Post: #4
RE: Future of RSA
-if only I didnt have this green passpoort
-if only I had lots of money
-if only I had a good degree or qualification

but, in the mean time I just try to get by, and pray
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30-06-2018, 01:30 PM
Post: #5
RE: Future of RSA
dunno anymoredunno anymore Im just lost for words

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30-06-2018, 01:42 PM
Post: #6
RE: Future of RSA
I would like to know where the future looks rosy. Places not yet impacted by fascism, war, terrorism, trade wars, economic instability etc. are few and far between. China has implemented some terrifying controls on citizens.

My family has been in Australia for 10 years now - full citizens with no SA visas anymore. If you feel that you can reset your life it is an option. Canada also if you can deal with the weather.

There are whole industries setup around bringing South Africa home to them. The homesickness is real. The weather is similar but culture is very different unless you end up in immigrant circles from your own country. PLENTY of south africans there, some of them successful, most of them pretending to be better off than they were here. You earn more money but the cost of things there is ASTRONOMICAL IMHO even if earning local currency. You can dream of owning a house in most instances. Expect to pay $400 000 for a standalone place that in SA in a security estate you could buy for R1 500 000. It has been a struggle for a household of 3 professionals to hit the reset button on life but they have done it. There is no domestic help, nannies, au pairs etc except for the really wealthy. In centres like Sydney this is even worse.

There has been a HUGE clampdown in Australia (and other countries) on immigration and most of the Visa codes I would have qualified for 5 years ago are now closed. If you have no degree or no certified technical skills forget about it. If you are indian or black you will experience open racism last seen here in SA probably before 1985. The position of most of their friends is 'at least they aren't hiding it' Businesses have even been posting "No Chinese" and "No Indian" signs (they don't care if you are from India or UK or South Africa). However there is no violence and I guess we hear about isolated cases - without being on the ground there is no way to really tell.

The question I guess is whether you have the right skills, energy and ability to take a gamble (still dependent on luck), uproot your family etc. The land of milk and honey doesn't exist IMHO. There are better places than here but you need to be the right colour, have the right skills and even then already have a MASSIVE buffer of money.

As to the future here, my kids will definitely be studying overseas and will settle wherever they want. They are already attending private school here and I know of no government schools that I would be comfortable sending them to (I went to government school - HOD - myself and if that kind of education still existed I wouldn't mind - but what we have now is actually criminally bad). We are definitely down and out at the moment as a country in absolute terms, but relative to other places I am not so sure. Plan C is probably going to Australia if we have eg: all out civil war.

I have other more distant family in Germany, the US and the UK. To put it bluntly, your mileage will vary DRAMATICALLY depending on where you are if you are not white and even if you are, then you might still face anti immigrant sentiment.

You trade one set of problems for another.

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30-06-2018, 01:49 PM
Post: #7
RE: Future of RSA
(30-06-2018 01:42 PM)TurboLlew Wrote:  I would like to know where the future looks rosy. Places not yet impacted by fascism, war, terrorism, trade wars, economic instability etc. are few and far between. China has implemented some terrifying controls on citizens.

My family has been in Australia for 10 years now - full citizens with no SA visas anymore. If you feel that you can reset your life it is an option. Canada also if you can deal with the weather.

There are whole industries setup around bringing South Africa home to them. The homesickness is real. The weather is similar but culture is very different unless you end up in immigrant circles from your own country. PLENTY of south africans there, some of them successful, most of them pretending to be better off than they were here. You earn more money but the cost of things there is ASTRONOMICAL IMHO even if earning local currency. You can dream of owning a house in most instances. Expect to pay $400 000 for a standalone place that in SA in a security estate you could buy for R1 500 000. It has been a struggle for a household of 3 professionals to hit the reset button on life but they have done it. There is no domestic help, nannies, au pairs etc except for the really wealthy. In centres like Sydney this is even worse.

There has been a HUGE clampdown in Australia (and other countries) on immigration and most of the Visa codes I would have qualified for 5 years ago are now closed. If you have no degree or no certified technical skills forget about it. If you are indian or black you will experience open racism last seen here in SA probably before 1985. The position of most of their friends is 'at least they aren't hiding it' Businesses have even been posting "No Chinese" and "No Indian" signs (they don't care if you are from India or UK or South Africa). However there is no violence and I guess we hear about isolated cases - without being on the ground there is no way to really tell.

The question I guess is whether you have the right skills, energy and ability to take a gamble (still dependent on luck), uproot your family etc. The land of milk and honey doesn't exist IMHO. There are better places than here but you need to be the right colour, have the right skills and even then already have a MASSIVE buffer of money.

As to the future here, my kids will definitely be studying overseas and will settle wherever they want. They are already attending private school here and I know of no government schools that I would be comfortable sending them to (I went to government school - HOD - myself and if that kind of education still existed I wouldn't mind - but what we have now is actually criminally bad). We are definitely down and out at the moment as a country in absolute terms, but relative to other places I am not so sure. Plan C is probably going to Australia if we have eg: all out civil war.

I have other more distant family in Germany, the US and the UK. To put it bluntly, your mileage will vary DRAMATICALLY depending on where you are if you are not white and even if you are, then you might still face anti immigrant sentiment.

You trade one set of problems for another.

Very well said. Unfortunately many people believe that when you exit SA that all of life's struggles go away like as if you turned off a light switch
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30-06-2018, 06:15 PM (This post was last modified: 30-06-2018 06:15 PM by MR_Y.)
Post: #8
Future of RSA
Merc has invested heavily in the new C Class, to come from 2020 onwards. Also, BMW invested alot in the new X3. These guys do intensive scenario planning for the worst case. If our country was on the crap grade trajectory, I doubt they would have invested billions for the future.

SAs main issue is corruption. If that can be resolved, then all other evils diminish too.

I also thought about emigrating, but the financial outlay to live in the house and drive the car I have now in another country is too much, after all other expenses that are much higher than S.A.

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30-06-2018, 08:40 PM
Post: #9
Future of RSA
In my case
In my mid 50's
Expected lifespan according to statistics should be gusting 70
I smoke way too much, and I ain't about to try to give up,
Thus synically speaking, just about 20 years left
Almost retired, And too much Rand value investment, (house /RA / pension) which would be almost worthless if converted to Euro or USD
No family in S.A.
No kids
No wife
Just me

So I am not going anywhere new at this late stage, in my late stage of life, no-one to answer too, no-one to worry about providing for or caring for.

So I am ready to accept anything S.A. has to throw at me,

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30-06-2018, 10:24 PM (This post was last modified: 30-06-2018 10:24 PM by LOW BOOST.)
Post: #10
Future of RSA
I always try to look at the positives.
We maybe a supposedly 'shithole' country but we have mostly great infrastructure.
Just had a look at the new umhlanga interchange in Durban.. it's worldclass to name a few.
A quick analogy came to mind.
Two guys went to the swiss alps for the weekend,
One enjoyed everything the alps could offer,
Skiing, snowboarding etc..
The other stayed in the hotel and complained about how cold and uncomfortable the weather was all weekend.
They both went on the same holiday but had the opposite experience.
Moral of the story.
You can go anywhere in the world,
But it's what you make of it that counts.
Control what you can and don't waste time complaining on what you can't.
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30-06-2018, 11:16 PM
Post: #11
RE: Future of RSA
(30-06-2018 01:42 PM)TurboLlew Wrote:  I would like to know where the future looks rosy. Places not yet impacted by fascism, war, terrorism, trade wars, economic instability etc. are few and far between. China has implemented some terrifying controls on citizens.

My family has been in Australia for 10 years now - full citizens with no SA visas anymore. If you feel that you can reset your life it is an option. Canada also if you can deal with the weather.

There are whole industries setup around bringing South Africa home to them. The homesickness is real. The weather is similar but culture is very different unless you end up in immigrant circles from your own country. PLENTY of south africans there, some of them successful, most of them pretending to be better off than they were here. You earn more money but the cost of things there is ASTRONOMICAL IMHO even if earning local currency. You can dream of owning a house in most instances. Expect to pay $400 000 for a standalone place that in SA in a security estate you could buy for R1 500 000. It has been a struggle for a household of 3 professionals to hit the reset button on life but they have done it. There is no domestic help, nannies, au pairs etc except for the really wealthy. In centres like Sydney this is even worse.

There has been a HUGE clampdown in Australia (and other countries) on immigration and most of the Visa codes I would have qualified for 5 years ago are now closed. If you have no degree or no certified technical skills forget about it. If you are indian or black you will experience open racism last seen here in SA probably before 1985. The position of most of their friends is 'at least they aren't hiding it' Businesses have even been posting "No Chinese" and "No Indian" signs (they don't care if you are from India or UK or South Africa). However there is no violence and I guess we hear about isolated cases - without being on the ground there is no way to really tell.

The question I guess is whether you have the right skills, energy and ability to take a gamble (still dependent on luck), uproot your family etc. The land of milk and honey doesn't exist IMHO. There are better places than here but you need to be the right colour, have the right skills and even then already have a MASSIVE buffer of money.

As to the future here, my kids will definitely be studying overseas and will settle wherever they want. They are already attending private school here and I know of no government schools that I would be comfortable sending them to (I went to government school - HOD - myself and if that kind of education still existed I wouldn't mind - but what we have now is actually criminally bad). We are definitely down and out at the moment as a country in absolute terms, but relative to other places I am not so sure. Plan C is probably going to Australia if we have eg: all out civil war.

I have other more distant family in Germany, the US and the UK. To put it bluntly, your mileage will vary DRAMATICALLY depending on where you are if you are not white and even if you are, then you might still face anti immigrant sentiment.

You trade one set of problems for another.

Seen two posts of yours in one day, with just infinite amounts of wisdom. If you don't mind I'm gonna gather your posts, collate them in a book and publish. Bravo Ty

I've met overseas investors and there's definitely differing views, but one thing I've seen is a bunch of attempted mergers/acquisitions and even completed ones. Consolidation or growth?
Some of these investors are bullish whereas others have liquidated and are running to the hills.
I do think perspective plays a huge role, but one can't discount or rubbish the political environment.
My view? Now is the time though to keep heads down but ears open to any opportunities, be it business, emigration and just general life. And whatever comes your way scrutinize it properly but remember to keep yourself and family first in whatever decision.
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30-06-2018, 11:22 PM
Post: #12
RE: Future of RSA
(30-06-2018 10:24 PM)LOW BOOST Wrote:  I always try to look at the positives.
We maybe a supposedly 'shithole' country but we have mostly great infrastructure.
Just had a look at the new umhlanga interchange in Durban.. it's worldclass to name a few.
A quick analogy came to mind.
Two guys went to the swiss alps for the weekend,
One enjoyed everything the alps could offer,
Skiing, snowboarding etc..
The other stayed in the hotel and complained about how cold and uncomfortable the weather was all weekend.
They both went on the same holiday but had the opposite experience.
Moral of the story.
You can go anywhere in the world,
But it's what you make of it that counts.
Control what you can and don't waste time complaining on what you can't.
Well said bro, after all no one can predict the future. Just focus on your life and what makes you happy, work hard so that you can afford all your needs and some of your wants if not all. Enjoy life

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01-07-2018, 07:27 AM
Post: #13
RE: Future of RSA
(30-06-2018 11:22 PM)lebofa Wrote:  Well said bro, after all no one can predict the future. Just focus on your life and what makes you happy, work hard so that you can afford all your needs and some of your wants if not all. Enjoy life
I must say, I dislike most of your posts, but this is a good one Thumbs

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01-07-2018, 10:22 AM
Post: #14
RE: Future of RSA
(30-06-2018 08:40 PM)Ralf* Wrote:  In my case
In my mid 50's
Expected lifespan according to statistics should be gusting 70
I smoke way too much, and I ain't about to try to give up,
Thus synically speaking, just about 20 years left
Almost retired, And too much Rand value investment, (house /RA / pension) which would be almost worthless if converted to Euro or USD
No family in S.A.
No kids
No wife
Just me

So I am not going anywhere new at this late stage, in my late stage of life, no-one to answer too, no-one to worry about providing for or caring for.

So I am ready to accept anything S.A. has to throw at me,

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01-07-2018, 05:08 PM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2018 05:40 PM by Veteran.)
Post: #15
RE: Future of RSA
Well there’s nobody that replied that feels we have a positively bright future. But as some have said, it ain’t all peachy elsewhere. And I agree.
But making excuses that other places aren’t great, doesn’t fix our future prospects. We’re in a pretty bad way generally, but there are positives too.

I also agree that as a emigrant you will never be really accepted.
I can’t blame them, as we are invading their country, and they did pretty well before we arrived.
Why should they await us with open arms ?
But if you keep your head down and work hard, you will move forward.
I would rather not be completely accepted in a first world country and have a future for myself and kids, than to stay here and risk a scenario, that in a worst case can end like Zimbabwe.
I honestly don’t think we will go that way, but what do I know .
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01-07-2018, 05:42 PM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2018 05:47 PM by FerdiBotha.)
Post: #16
RE: Future of RSA
Well I’m a young adult, soon to be qualified, been working for 2 years and have made a conscience decision to put funds away, not for a house in SA, but to emigrate should SA really turn into a Zim of sorts.

I’m under no false impression that other countires are all sunshine and rainbows, yet I know that it will probably provide a better and brighter future for myself, wife and kids one day. I am also young enough to not have too much money invested within SA and can still gain experience in a completely new and possibly radically different work force. There’s no real reason for me to stay here apart from family, but chances are good that if the move does come about, I won’t be the only one going.

I sincerely do hope the whole picture in SA changes soon, but unfortunately it seems to be getting worse daily. It’s very sad indeed. dunno anymore

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01-07-2018, 08:51 PM
Post: #17
RE: Future of RSA
@FerdiBotha you mention something interesting in terms of a radically different workforce

Industry 4.0 is here and transforming things more quickly than you would think.

It isn't just repetitive or menial jobs that would disappear but even engineering jobs (at the ABB conference a few months ago there was a piece of kit that enabled you to run an oil plant sub-section on 25 engineers vs. 100+ prior to implementation. Creative jobs are also equally at risk with algorithms, AI/Cognitive computing and the sheer brute force of processing power coupled with insane amounts of data making super targeted, context sensitive and audience relevant ads (who would have thought)...

Unfortunately in SA with the dumbing down of both secondary and tertiary education (as I've posted before) you are simply unable to hire people into what were previously entry level jobs and you also find some of those entry level jobs no longer exist. I have not hired grads in the past few years, on one hand because I could not find any and on the other because there are excellent experienced hires that cost just a tiny amount more than a grad does... we have many skilled and experienced people willing to do a job that a grad will require hundreds of hours of training to still get to.

This brings us to the 'gig' economy and XaaS (which now extends far beyond the tech space). I don't like it but it is what it is. Certain roles are now totally outsourced and you 'buy' them via an agency or as an OpEx cost as opposed to having a full time employee. Specialist copywriters, certain types of coders etc. Others are commoditised to the point that for $20 i can get a professional piece of creative work from a designer/creative in Ukraine/Pakistan/India/Brazil etc via Fiver.com that I have within 24 hours as opposed to dealing with creative agencies that behave like corporates and have no agility.

Certain services and items likewise can also no longer be bought outright but have to be rented. At this point you have a generation that is renting almost EVERYTHING in their lives and things that we never thought would be commoditised are. Their houses, transportation, operating systems, software, storage space, movies, games, compute power, music, work tools... and not content siphoning all their money for nothing physical in return, their information is used to sell them even more stuff... We have even made them love the convenience of it all... but that is another story for another day.

Even with intellectually and physically capable people, we have just sent a whole generation down the garden path getting (extraordinarily expensive) degrees and diplomas for jobs that they might work in for a few years, but are going the way of the dinosaur. We also have this absurd approach to mentorship (by people who have walked a path that can't be walked again) and even career guidance and parents opinions are woefully outdated.

Technology is going to improve life by orders of magnitude, but it will not be kind to the current generation entering the workforce unless they quickly reskill/upskill themselves.

These are not South African issues. They are global ones. Nothing is static either. You can't predict that a place that is attractive today or industry that is promising will remain so even 5 years into the future.

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22-10-2018, 01:22 PM
Post: #18
RE: Future of RSA
How are you guys feeling recently. I have heard more people talking about wanting to move to another country and how its better to be done sooner then when we become Zimbabwe.

I dont fully understand what happens when/if the rand completely tanks? Does that mean the bond I have I could essentially pay it off easier since the rand should be worth little and if I am able to secure income in another currency I am sorted? Do some people actually benefit when things like this happen?

I know the crime and civil war would be hectic but just thinking for people who cant/wont move what will be life like here if this does happen?
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22-10-2018, 05:34 PM
Post: #19
RE: Future of RSA
What worked for me is a change of mindset.....
I travelled to a genuine sh$thole, and came back with appreciation for SA. In fact it was such an experience that I found myself disliking the complaints I heard about SA after coming back.
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22-10-2018, 06:21 PM
Post: #20
RE: Future of RSA
BMW and Merc invested billions into SA recently.
Even with the rampant strikes last year, BMW saw it fit to make the X3 locally - yes, even though it is almost 1,000km from the nearest harbour to export the cars out!

SA still has decent fundamentals.
When BMW pull out, then you need to pack your bag...

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