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E30 M10 Cooling Systen
15-07-2014, 06:06 PM,
#1
E30 M10 Cooling Systen
I need all the help I can get gentlemen

Over the weekend my car once again ran hot.

I have a new Viscous clutch... it was running cold every day... I drive about 12km in the morning. Then 6 home in the afternoon. It would never even reach 1/2 in the mornings... and itll just get to 1/4 on the gauge in the afternoons.

This weekend drove about 20km it traffic. Stop go. Toward end of my journey it just kissed the red.

Drove faster and she cooled down again.

So yesterday I decide to pull the thermostat.

[Image: a9equsen.jpg]

Also the centre spring and thermostat body inside that corroded housing was cut and removed.

I got a replacement Wahler thermostat from Goldwagen. Ps. My new viscous is also from GW.

[Image: mujyreje.jpg]

Flushed the system with Wynns radiator flush. Drove 40 km. Drained and pressure cleaned the system. Using our fire hydrant at work.

The car is now running at 3/4 on the gauge constantly. Never gets any hotter or cooler.

System is bled. I cannot get any more air out of it. New thermostat supposedly opens at 80degrees. It opens when the gauge is at 3/4.

Once it opens the viscous kicks in at about 15percent of working speed. As soon as this happens temp drops by a hair or 2 on the gauge.

Then it operates at that.

When I gun the motor temperature drops down a few hair widths. As soon as I drive normally its up to 3/4 and stays put.




Where do I go from here?

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15-07-2014, 07:10 PM,
#2
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
the radiator might be partially blocked e 30 normally run on the half mark 3/4 is way to high also check the temp censor sender unit
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15-07-2014, 07:25 PM,
#3
Re: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
E30Zone wiki says between 1/4 and 1/1 is only a few degrees difference.

[Image: zebygety.jpg]

http:// http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewi...nstruments

My temp sender is just a brass sensor. I have a white, a brown and the brass sensor that just connects to a brown/white wire. The other two goes to the Ljet Box.

Is the 80degree thermostat the correct one?

And my Radiator is not clogged. Was running perfectly cold not a week ago.

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16-07-2014, 10:07 AM, (This post was last modified: 16-07-2014, 10:08 AM by edmundp.)
#4
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Oh drove one of these many moons ago.

Took me all of 6 months to get the cooling stabilized.

My suggestion - replace everything you can.

Have the radiator professionally flushed and checked - the E30 M10 radiator has very funny looking worm forms in the channels (almost looking like pasta) - they easily disintegrate and clog everything.

Radiator Cap.

Sensor.

Thermostat - check.

Replace the waterpump - I had to replace mine 3 times before I got a pump that did not start leaking after a month from a small drain hole on the shaft... Remember the impellers can wear down over time. New pumps are metal.

Make absolutely certain you do not have even the slightest leak.

All in all a very sensitive system - the smallest of leak or deviation will cause overheat.

O - and make sure you run very good anti-freeze in there. Like genuine BMW stuff...
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16-07-2014, 10:33 AM,
#5
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Two things to check:

1. The viscous fan clutch could be shot, even when virtually brand new the pirate units can pack up to the extent where they fail to lock up even when the engine is virtually molten metal;

2. Check the return pipe to the expansion tank. It's very thin and prone to clogging up right at the pressure cap. You can drill it out to a wider diameter for peace of mind.
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16-07-2014, 01:18 PM, (This post was last modified: 16-07-2014, 01:26 PM by boxerulez.)
#6
Re: RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
(16-07-2014, 10:07 AM)edmundp Wrote: Oh drove one of these many moons ago.

Took me all of 6 months to get the cooling stabilized.

My suggestion - replace everything you can.

Have the radiator professionally flushed and checked - the E30 M10 radiator has very funny looking worm forms in the channels (almost looking like pasta) - they easily disintegrate and clog everything.

Radiator Cap.

Sensor.

Thermostat - check.

Replace the waterpump - I had to replace mine 3 times before I got a pump that did not start leaking after a month from a small drain hole on the shaft... Remember the impellers can wear down over time. New pumps are metal.

Make absolutely certain you do not have even the slightest leak.

All in all a very sensitive system - the smallest of leak or deviation will cause overheat.

O - and make sure you run very good anti-freeze in there. Like genuine BMW stuff...



Took the thermostat out and popped it in a pot of hot water... it only opened up once the water started boiling vigorously...


(16-07-2014, 10:33 AM)Auditor Wrote: Two things to check:

1. The viscous fan clutch could be shot, even when virtually brand new the pirate units can pack up to the extent where they fail to lock up even when the engine is virtually molten metal;

2. Check the return pipe to the expansion tank. It's very thin and prone to clogging up right at the pressure cap. You can drill it out to a wider diameter for peace of mind.

Fitted the full flow jacked thermostat again... running cold for about 40mins of idle... then it got to 1/2 on the gauge... viscois kicks in back down to 1/4...

I think once I get the replacement thermostat... it will be fine. As long as the replacement isnt a dud either.



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(16-07-2014, 10:33 AM)Auditor Wrote: Two things to check:

1. The viscous fan clutch could be shot, even when virtually brand new the pirate units can pack up to the extent where they fail to lock up even when the engine is virtually molten metal;

2. Check the return pipe to the expansion tank. It's very thin and prone to clogging up right at the pressure cap. You can drill it out to a wider diameter for peace of mind.

Ps. No expansion tank on an M10. Full flow radiator with expansion on top of radiator. With overflow pipe.

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I am running Holtz at the moment but will change upto the BMW stuff after this ordeal is sorted out

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17-07-2014, 05:41 PM, (This post was last modified: 17-07-2014, 05:42 PM by boxerulez.)
#7
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
I contacted WAG today. Philip put me in contact with Nico at MotoEuro quality control.

They have a replacement Febi Bilstein thermostat. They tested it for me and it operates at the correct temperature. They are sending me the unit that was tested.

Will be here on tuesday. Will probably only update on wednesday again.

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17-07-2014, 07:37 PM,
#8
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Be mindfull of the fact that the system needs to be bled with the heater (temperature setting) turned on to full hot.

The thermostat only opening when the water was boiling is a good indication that it may have been a dud unit.

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~ Winston Churchill




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boxerulez
17-07-2014, 09:53 PM,
#9
Re: RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
(17-07-2014, 07:37 PM)a1exander Wrote: Be mindfull of the fact that the system needs to be bled with the heater (temperature setting) turned on to full hot.

The thermostat only opening when the water was boiling is a good indication that it may have been a dud unit.

Thanks a1exander.

Yes I am aware of the heaters issues. Struggled extensively with this when I just got the car as the heater matrix was blocked and the HCV was broken. Had to modify a ford bantam HCV as the bmw one could not be found anywhere.

On a side note the e30 bmw hcv is a stop flow valve... I replaced it with a return cycle valve. Ie the old valve stopped flow through the heater matrix. The current custom HCV bypasses the heater matrix when set to cool.

Basically the same as a bypass mod.

Do you see this having any negative effect?

Regards
V

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17-07-2014, 10:25 PM,
#10
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
None whatsoever.

I wonder if you could post a pic of the new valve setup?

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~ Winston Churchill




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18-07-2014, 06:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 18-07-2014, 06:31 PM by boxerulez.)
#11
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Between hcv and heater matrix runs 2 aluminium pipes. I cut them and extended into engine bay with rubber hose... connected to the ford part... and connectet original hoses to other end of ford part. Connected same hcv wiring to the ford hcv and presto. Will snaps pics tomorrow.

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Thing is I know when the ford hcv fails it leaks heavily... so I do not want that risk under my dashboard.

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Peter@AEW
23-07-2014, 08:56 PM,
#12
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Well I have my new thermostat. FEBI BILSTEIN.

2 DAYS no problems. Temp running at 1/2 up to 2mm past 1/2 and back regulated by the viscous. Thermo is opening at exactly 1/2

@a1exander will snap pics of the hcv setup tomorrow. Been crazy busy sorry.

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Peter@AEW
06-10-2014, 02:05 PM,
#13
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
I have once again run into the feared 2mm short of 3/4 if left to idle/in traffic/gunning it under load at low speed.

I have gone ahead and finally ordered an OEM Viscous coupling and it finally arrived today.

Fitted.

Still running up to shy of 3/4 on the gauge.

Given it is reading 29 deg C outside today in my area, is this something to be concerned about?

The Viscous is not engaging fully, however on startup it is running almost full lock like it should. After a few seconds it loosens up, and then at halfway between 1/2 and 3/4 on the gauge it goes a little tighter but not close to full engaged.

I have flushed the radiator, no debris nor rusty water running out anymore.

No moisture in oil and no oil residue in the cooling system.

I have now gone ahead and ordered a Temp Sender *cross fingers*

What other avenues can you gentlemen propose I explore?

Regards
V
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06-10-2014, 05:11 PM,
#14
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Are you losing any water?

My e34 525 was running just past half, the day it went over half, I discovered a radiator leak on the expansion tank, fitted a new o-ring and put all back in.

Drove around and pushed it a bit, with no fan, no viscous and it would just march past half way up until 3/4...this concerned me, but not as much cause of the fact that I wasnt running a fan at all.

I drove the car until it was nice and warm, got home...and opened the bonnet. I heard a hissing noise, on closer inspection, I found a tiny, and I mean tiny leak where the heater control valve connects into the firewall. Tighthened the clamp up, and managed to stabilise.

Perhaps sometimes you need to go back to basics...Check all pipes are tight.

Another thing, are you running it all with the fan cowl, the fan cowl does help somewhat.

Hope it helps.
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06-10-2014, 09:35 PM,
#15
Re: RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
(06-10-2014, 05:11 PM)JayDrft Wrote: Are you losing any water?

My e34 525 was running just past half, the day it went over half, I discovered a radiator leak on the expansion tank, fitted a new o-ring and put all back in.

Drove around and pushed it a bit, with no fan, no viscous and it would just march past half way up until 3/4...this concerned me, but not as much cause of the fact that I wasnt running a fan at all.

I drove the car until it was nice and warm, got home...and opened the bonnet. I heard a hissing noise, on closer inspection, I found a tiny, and I mean tiny leak where the heater control valve connects into the firewall. Tighthened the clamp up, and managed to stabilise.

Perhaps sometimes you need to go back to basics...Check all pipes are tight.

Another thing, are you running it all with the fan cowl, the fan cowl does help somewhat.

Hope it helps.
The M10B18 setup has a cowel of about 1 1/4inches wide... useless really nothing like the M40 setups. But it is in place. I will double check the hoses tomorrow.

I have no expansion tank besides the molded one on top of the radiator. It runs a 1.0 bar cap as apposed to the 1.4bar caps on the other E30s.

It has an overflow pipe.

When I fill it to the top it pushes out some coolant...not much until it gets to a stable level. Then there is no loss after it stabilises.
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06-10-2014, 10:17 PM,
#16
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Have you bled the cooling system with the heater open?

If viscous locks on start up and not fully on 3/4 on the heat gauge it is likely that you have an airlock somewhere?

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~ Winston Churchill




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06-10-2014, 10:28 PM,
#17
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
bled it fully. no airlocks. heater pumps out tons of hot air and when i switch on the heater temp drops to just above 1/2...
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09-10-2014, 05:39 PM,
#18
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
so... fitted new part... echlin ts6061... application on m40 not m10. makes sense as i have the cluster from an m40 and not an m10 car.

temp running 1/2 moving up to just a fraction past half in traffic.

on freeway steady 1/2

with heater on a fraction below 1/2
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11-10-2014, 06:54 PM,
#19
Re: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
after spirited drive on freeway...back in traffic.

[Image: b83ff5a0dfdcad8a7eeb1980a2cc5e6b.jpg]
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20-02-2019, 08:32 PM,
#20
RE: E30 M10 Cooling Systen
Hi folks,

I found this thread when carrying out some research - I've been having the same problem Boxrulez had. I have a 1988 316, M10 engine. I've also been on the BMW Car Club message board - here's the thread - https://www.bmwccgbforum.co.uk/topic1532...html#83923

Mi initial post on 22nd December gives chapter and verse on what's been happening.

I've been running my car for about three weeks without the thermostat - the best way to describe it is that the thermostat is "pushed sideways" in the housing, out of the path of the coolant as it leaves the engine, in order to simulate a situation where the thermostat is open permanently. Needless to say, the car takes ages to heat up - ninety minutes of urban driving brought the needle on the gauge only barely out of the blue (the weather's been cold here in Dublin and we've had a good bit of frost also). The big difference is that, unlike the day I put up my initial post on the BMW Car Club forum, the bottom rad hose is warm (although not as warm as the hose which brings coolant out of the engine), so at least I know that the coolant is circulating. I've had the heater on also - it hasn't produced hot air for years but I replaced the dial used to select cold or hot air. My mother was a front seat passenger and she noticed warm air circulating at her feet - for the first time in years. It looks for all the world like the thermostat is the cause of the problem - that and the fact that I've fitted two new thermostats bought from my local BMW dealer with no improvement.

My question now is which brand of thermostat to use. I noticed that boxrulez says that he has the instrument cluster from an M40 car, but his cluster is identical to the one on my car.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, as would any further thoughts on the possible source of the problem
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