"Super Knocking"

Neven · Oct 4, 2012

So my wife's 09 R56 Cooper S went in to BMW about 4 times for the infamous super-knocking issue where the car cuts off power intermittently when building boost. After numerous tries BMW SA authorized a new engine for her car in August 2012.

After a few weeks I test drove the car and found the issue to still be present. Escalated to Sanjay at Sandton Auto who has subsequently booked the car in for Monday 8 October.

Anyone else experienced similar problems on their cars?

Apparently this is a common problem with these motors.

My thinking is its turbo/waste gate related.

PS: Turbo was not changed when motor was replaced in August.

Jarryd F · Oct 4, 2012

Have the same problem under hard acceleration in 3rd, and when building boost from low revs in 4th. Sounds like a very metallic kind of rattling sound right? I have just had my engine and turbo replaced so I really don't know what the problem could be.

pre325 · Oct 4, 2012

its the wastegate

Neven · Oct 5, 2012

Jarryd F said:
Have the same problem under hard acceleration in 3rd, and when building boost from low revs in 4th. Sounds like a very metallic kind of rattling sound right? I have just had my engine and turbo replaced so I really don't know what the problem could be.

Exactly that bud.

Our turbo wasn't replaced though. Is your performing well now?

pre325 said:
its the wastegate

You think?
I dont mean to be rude but it looks like you drive a 325i which doesnt have a turbo so you wouldnt know.

LOL - relax guys. This is my brother and I also drive a 325i:rollsmile:
Ps - he has one of the cleanest e30 325 Coupe I have seen.

Just the weekend cheek.LOL

wikk3d88 · Oct 5, 2012

not related to the death rattle?

Mike1 · Oct 5, 2012

I am going with timing chain being fooked too!

Neven · Oct 5, 2012

Timing chain was done a year ago Mike.

Can they wear that quickly?

Mike1 · Oct 5, 2012

Could be that again, I know of a few MINI's that had the issue return within 4 months, its a very weak point on the motors design but I dont see how that would affect the boost...

Is it noiser on startup (hot or cold) then goes a bit quieter? Alternatively it could be fuel starvation, a boost leak even?

George Smooth · Oct 5, 2012

In terms of the motor what did they change? Long Block? This will eliminate what hasn't been changed and is still causing the problem. Is it the same heads?

Jarryd F · Oct 5, 2012

Neven said:
Jarryd F said:

Have the same problem under hard acceleration in 3rd, and when building boost from low revs in 4th. Sounds like a very metallic kind of rattling sound right? I have just had my engine and turbo replaced so I really don't know what the problem could be.

Click to expand...

Exactly that bud.

Our turbo wasn't replaced though. Is your performing well now?

Ye it may just be me but I feel a bit more of an urge when accelerating. I was reading somewhere on the UK forums that it could be a timing problem, however should there be a timing problem on a brand new engine? I've had the engine for +- 4,000kms and the turbo for not even 1,000kms. Likewise with your new engine, I'm sure timing shouldn't be an issue.

Would be good to hear if anyone else has suffered this

hotchocolate · Oct 5, 2012

Hey guys, I have a similar issue with my car but have done countless hours of research and reading on this issue.

This is a fuel quality/timing problem. It seems that the MINI's are very sensitive to fuel grade/quality and due to the high compression ratio of 10.5/1 and low fuel grade, when boost is applied the VANOS on the intake side retards the timing thus bogging the car down and causing the clicking noise. Now naturally the ECU will pick up a miss-fire and thus trigger the super knocking sensor which is logged on the ECU.

This happened to my car and BMW Bruma told me that I needed to replace my entire motor. They even went to the extent of providing me with fake compression tests stating that the engine was totally bust and had no compression in all cylinders just so that they could get the out of warranty cash repair. My car only has 50 000km's in it!

I took the car to TuneTech and Sean did the exact same tests. Car is 100% fine. His exact words were "There is nothing wrong with your car, its brand new". He did advise that I use a bottle of injector cleaner every 3 or so tanks and add half a bottle of NF +3 to every full tank.

Fuel grade is now adequate, car idles smoother, boost is smooth and the infamous clicking noise is gone. Engine still original.

Hope this helps.

ASH · Oct 5, 2012

Lol, the brotherly up in here!

From the cousin chippin' in, lol

Enjoy the weekend boys.............

Neven said:
Jarryd F said:

Have the same problem under hard acceleration in 3rd, and when building boost from low revs in 4th. Sounds like a very metallic kind of rattling sound right? I have just had my engine and turbo replaced so I really don't know what the problem could be.

Click to expand...

Exactly that bud.

Our turbo wasn't replaced though. Is your performing well now?

pre325 said:

its the wastegate

Click to expand...

You think?
I dont mean to be rude but it looks like you drive a 325i which doesnt have a turbo so you wouldnt know.

LOL - relax guys. This is my brother and I also drive a 325i:rollsmile:
Ps - he has one of the cleanest e30 325 Coupe I have seen.

Just the weekend cheek.LOL

netercol · Oct 5, 2012

super knocking aka detonation.. high static compresssion ratio engine + boost + low quality (lower than europe anyways) fuel = detonation.
ecu detects detonation, pulls back timing to save engine..

simple test might be to put a few cans of octane booster on half a tank of fuel and see if the problem still occurs.. me thinks it possible somewhere someone did not do their homework properly at bmw..

just my 2c..

moranor@axis · Oct 5, 2012

guys If its just fuel have NF octane boost at good prices Just PM me :rollsmile:

Neven · Oct 5, 2012

MiniMike19 said:
Could be that again, I know of a few MINI's that had the issue return within 4 months, its a very weak point on the motors design but I dont see how that would affect the boost...

Is it noiser on startup (hot or cold) then goes a bit quieter? Alternatively it could be fuel starvation, a boost leak even?

Hey Mike

No rattle/noise on startup.

George Smooth said:
In terms of the motor what did they change? Long Block? This will eliminate what hasn't been changed and is still causing the problem. Is it the same heads?

Hey George

I think the same heads were used but I stand to be corrected.

hotchocolate said:
Hey guys, I have a similar issue with my car but have done countless hours of research and reading on this issue.

This is a fuel quality/timing problem. It seems that the MINI's are very sensitive to fuel grade/quality and due to the high compression ratio of 10.5/1 and low fuel grade, when boost is applied the VANOS on the intake side retards the timing thus bogging the car down and causing the clicking noise. Now naturally the ECU will pick up a miss-fire and thus trigger the super knocking sensor which is logged on the ECU.

This happened to my car and BMW Bruma told me that I needed to replace my entire motor. They even went to the extent of providing me with fake compression tests stating that the engine was totally bust and had no compression in all cylinders just so that they could get the out of warranty cash repair. My car only has 50 000km's in it!

I took the car to TuneTech and Sean did the exact same tests. Car is 100% fine. His exact words were "There is nothing wrong with your car, its brand new". He did advise that I use a bottle of injector cleaner every 3 or so tanks and add half a bottle of NF +3 to every full tank.

Fuel grade is now adequate, car idles smoother, boost is smooth and the infamous clicking noise is gone. Engine still original.

Hope this helps.

Hey bud

Thanks for the response. BMW did try the additive route. Twice. With no positive outcome but that was on the old engine.

Their initial diagnosis was poor fuel quality. Point to mention though is that the car didn't always do this. We bought her at around 30 000km and only started experiencing issue at around 45 000km.

Glad yours is sorted.

ASH said:
Lol, the brotherly up in here!

From the cousin chippin' in, lol

Enjoy the weekend boys.............

Neven said:

Jarryd F said:

Have the same problem under hard acceleration in 3rd, and when building boost from low revs in 4th. Sounds like a very metallic kind of rattling sound right? I have just had my engine and turbo replaced so I really don't know what the problem could be.

Click to expand...

Exactly that bud.

Our turbo wasn't replaced though. Is your performing well now?

pre325 said:

its the wastegate

Click to expand...

You think?
I dont mean to be rude but it looks like you drive a 325i which doesnt have a turbo so you wouldnt know.

LOL - relax guys. This is my brother and I also drive a 325i:rollsmile:
Ps - he has one of the cleanest e30 325 Coupe I have seen.

Just the weekend cheek.LOL

Click to expand...

You too bro.

Thanks Netercol

Me thinks the same thing. I really hope Sanjay and team fix her this time around. The car will stay there till I test and make sure it's 100% before we take back.

Jarryd F · Oct 9, 2012

Hey Neven, let me know what the outcome is.

Just out of interest, which fuel supplier do you guys use? Do you stick to Engen/BP/Shell?

Neven · Oct 9, 2012

Sure bud. Car is in now.

Sandton Auto have opened a PUMA case.

Shell VPower 95 and sometimes BP if we cant find a Shell.

Porra46 · Oct 13, 2012

Hi guys!!

Had this problem as well with my pug's motor. Our motors are exactly the same... And it only had 25k mileage on...

When booting the car in 3rd, one would feel a dip in power, then hear the timing chain, followed by the power kicking in again. Eventually it gets so bad the turbo can stop spooling to protect the motor.

When this power loss occurs, your motor has already detonated. True story. Carry on driving and it will break a piston. The chain sound is caused by the tensioner trying to retard the timing.

The reason:

The stretch bolts by the cams have elongated and these make the cam pulleys slip. The result is the cams are in different position to the crank and this causes detonation, pre ignition etc. Once it has slipped it will carry on slipping to the point that the ECU shuts down the turbo. By now you have put some deadly mileage to your pistons...

And this timing slippage is a problem on all these THP175 engines. Even the new motors with upgraded timing parts. Some of the new ones slip. But if the elongated bolts are replaced and the mechanic torques everything correctly, you will have no more problems.

And just another note... Higher grade fuel helps but the car is knocking/detonating... Thats why higher grade fuel will 'help' but is not a remedy. The timing is out.

BigdaddyG · Feb 8, 2013

Neven said:
So my wife's 09 R56 Cooper S went in to BMW about 4 times for the infamous super-knocking issue where the car cuts off power intermittently when building boost. After numerous tries BMW SA authorized a new engine for her car in August 2012.

After a few weeks I test drove the car and found the issue to still be present. Escalated to Sanjay at Sandton Auto who has subsequently booked the car in for Monday 8 October.

Anyone else experienced similar problems on their cars?

Apparently this is a common problem with these motors.

My thinking is its turbo/waste gate related.

PS: Turbo was not changed when motor was replaced in August.

I have had months of issues with too. Until finally I have found a solution. It's got to do with PCV pipe from the crank case. See link to full article http://www.mini2.com/forum/second-g...n-stutter-over-boost-full-acceleration-2.html
Basically it relates to the 1.6 turbo charge THP motors that are used by BMW. Peugeot and Citroen. They all have this problem. So much so that Citroen on the new models have removed the pipe altogether.

hotchocolate · Feb 14, 2013

The super Knocking on my MINI has disappeard by changing the oil every 12000km's and only using Shell VPower fuel.

Result = Oil pipes stay clean and engine runs on a best fuel I can put in the car.

Once again, this was recommended by Tune Tech. :thumbs:

"Super Knocking"

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