discussion Advice on a non daily BMW, something M or M Light

[tman]

Cause I don't want to put excessive mileage on the 'special' car nor drive it on the SA roads when I don't have it. Road conditions are terrible and specific highways have become stone chip machines.

Keeping mileage low is not a guarantee that you will retain value.

I say forget about the idea of a garage queen. Sell the 320d and daily drive a B58 of your choice.

Your pocket will thank you, and you can enjoy the car every day.

 

[MR_Y]

440i Gan Coupe (4 door) is the classy choice.
Here is my ideal spec.
Not full M-sport, but has a classy look and seems like it will age more gracefully than an M-Sport.

BMW 4 Series 440i Gran Coupe for sale in Sandton - ID: 26031929

Used 2019 BMW 4 Series 440i Gran Coupe For Sale - R 639 950 - ID: 26031929

www.autotrader.co.za

 

[Salt]

M240i are generally better specced than the M140i.

Im assuming older model M cars are out of the question ?

based on your list, the f80 is likely the go to option.

a 440i GC is a solid option as well, but they are quite pricey - and in most cases it would make more sense to get a F80.

Hey bud. I've found a few M140's specced pretty close to what I am after. But I am hearing what people are saying, including you on the F80. Not a fan of the 440i GC to be honest. Look, the E36 M5 and E46 M3 are both dream cars for me, but I suspect their performance will not quite suffice for what I am after and especially not after driving an M140i or F80 M3. Please no one take offense...those are two amazing cars and I nearly jumped at the E36 M5 that was on sale a few months ago - those are sweet rides.

 

[Salt]

My hot take is that none of these cars - not even the Ms - are special enough that they need to be babied or garaged for those special occasions. That is the beauty of having them IMHO: enjoy driving them as intended. Do PPF if you want to avoid stone chips - you will be happier with 50000km of memories with it than a flawless paint finish (or worse, taking it out for 2000km in 2 years and swearing at the battery having lost charge, or electronics giving you issues with voltage or rubber bits degrading or fluids requiring changing without you having done any mileage.... and then having a stone chip your windshield or bonnet anyway!)

Condition and maintenance trump everything. I put over 100000km on my F10 and still got what I thought was fair value back. I have pics of it with my family all over the country. Honestly I could have gotten zero back and it would have still been worth owning it... I likely won't do as much mileage on my F90, but it is a very fast, capable family car - and more of a family supercar than the F10 which was really a family muscle car without the precision or nuance that you would get in other smaller or non-turbo M cars. This is why I mention the need for some of the suspension retrofits and changes...

Anyway: That is what it is, we think that "oh its an M car" in hallowed terms as though it is like a Ferrari or special Porsche or exotic car of some kind, but really they are made to be driven and enjoyed as intended - they are probably among the best to be used in this way, with the family or on those roads that make you feel like there is little else that would be more fun (and most of the M cars give you this feeling despite probably being killed by an M140i with Vargas turbos that Karsh mentions above). I see guys talking about how the M cars are harder and I GENUINELY wonder what they would do in the likes of a GT3 or GT4 or even my 4C. Even the M cars in competition form are not "hard" cars and certainly not to live with. Compared to a full on luxury car sure, but not vs. other 'special' cars.

Just some more for you to consider.

Llew I think I'll probably drive the car at least once a weekend...so it certainly won't be collecting dust And I can see myself taking the fam away for the weekend once in a while perhaps - your comments made me think and I would most def like some memories with the fam in the car - I can think of taking the kids to a school dance in it already. I appreciate your view on the M cars - however perhaps I think we come from somewhat different backgrounds and for me an M car is very much a special car - that is me right Perhaps because I've never owned one or a car in that class, and perhaps my view will align more to yours once I've owned one - but for now - it will be a childhood dream come true to own an M car. An M light car will be halfway there hehehe. You mentioned earlier M5...are you leaning more towards the M5 VS the M3?

 

[Salt]

What are 1m's going for these days?
Thats a special car, otherwise if it were my money, id buy an e90 m3 and used the other half of the funds to get one to perfect running order.
Throw an Enventuri Plenum on it and smile all weekend.

Nick that is a good point to consider, however if I am being honest I cannot find an E90 4 door M3 on either carfind nor autotrader. Was actually talking to Gav about that today.

 

[Salt]

Special, weekend car only, BMW, E46 m3, all day everyday, BUT not 4 door and you not worried about fuel, um um e90 m3. As good as the m140 is and the other m lite cars, they make more sense when you need the car as a daily. Softer and maybe more comfy than M cars. Older m cars aren’t great dailies but amazing weekenders. I spent more modding and maintaining my old n54 than I have on both the m cars.
Enjoy the search and drive em all. Don’t be soooo afraid of well looked after older m cars, just take you time. Daily duties with the m140 are great, but weekends with the old m3’s are FAR more exciting.

Thanks for sharing. As I mentioned above, the E46 M3 is one of my dream cars. Silver... Because the plan right now is for this not be a daily I am very much open to try things...it doesn't need to conform to anything practical, or fuel efficient etc.

 

[Salt]

A lot said and most of them valid discussion points and food for thought. That said, an M car is an M car, at the end of the day. I would happily be strapped by any new modern turbo petrol, with me in my old M3 - Just personal preference, I have no desire to be the fastest car and the older M's can easily get you into trouble with the law anyway.

I would only consider an x40i if I planned on using that car as a daily, you have a 320d for that already so moot point. I had a 335i that was a weekend special and honestly, I couldn't see the point in the end for myself as it was never the car I lusted after. The feeling of opening your garage and seeing your M car is a special one and shouldn't be underestimated. I don't use my M3 all that much but when I do, that V8 puts a smile on a face ALL THE TIME (except on warm up).

I think that is how I am thinking of it...I think of opening my garage door and there it is. And don't judge me for considering the M140i also standing there...but remember this will be my first M car of any sort - be it M or M light. Been a BMW fan since the 90's...washing moms E36 every weekend and enjoying it so much. I don't wana get rid of the 320d if I don't really have to.

 

[Salt]

Keeping mileage low is not a guarantee that you will retain value.

I say forget about the idea of a garage queen. Sell the 320d and daily drive a B58 of your choice.

Your pocket will thank you, and you can enjoy the car every day.

I totally agree, it certainly is not. However that is part of my game plan.

Your advice is solid, I cannot deny that and certainly something to think off. Will have to consider that as an option too.

 

[TurboLlew]

Llew I think I'll probably drive the car at least once a weekend...so it certainly won't be collecting dust And I can see myself taking the fam away for the weekend once in a while perhaps - your comments made me think and I would most def like some memories with the fam in the car - I can think of taking the kids to a school dance in it already. I appreciate your view on the M cars - however perhaps I think we come from somewhat different backgrounds and for me an M car is very much a special car - that is me right Perhaps because I've never owned one or a car in that class, and perhaps my view will align more to yours once I've owned one - but for now - it will be a childhood dream come true to own an M car. An M light car will be halfway there hehehe. You mentioned earlier M5...are you leaning more towards the M5 VS the M3?

I realise I have become an M5 guy 😂😂 we all look for different things in a car and I think the M5 and M3 both fill different needs. The M5 is far more Jekyll and Hyde than the M3 is.

Also on the other comment about the E39, even having had the F10 and F90 (and Neven will probably agree also since he has F10 and E60), the E39 is somehow still “peak BMW” for me lol. You would be amazed at how engaging it is to drive. Everything has definitely gotten faster but few things deliver on that “sports sedan” brief in the way an E39 M5 does.

Don’t get me wrong! Any of the M cars is definitely special… just not to the degree they need to be pickled or put on a pedestal. I can still look at the Alfa and F90 and count many blessings that they can live in my garage. I can’t imagine not driving either much though lol 😂. I find reasons to get out when one hasn’t been driven often enough. With the F90 still being quite new The Alfa has had a bit of a break but it’s back in regular use again now. I have no doubt when you have chosen you will drive it more than you thought you would!

 

[Salt]

I realise I have become an M5 guy 😂😂 we all look for different things in a car and I think the M5 and M3 both fill different needs. The M5 is far more Jekyll and Hyde than the M3 is.

Also on the other comment about the E39, even having had the F10 and F90 (and Neven will probably agree also since he has F10 and E60), the E39 is somehow still “peak BMW” for me lol. You would be amazed at how engaging it is to drive. Everything has definitely gotten faster but few things deliver on that “sports sedan” brief in the way an E39 M5 does.

Don’t get me wrong! Any of the M cars is definitely special… just not to the degree they need to be pickled or put on a pedestal. I can still look at the Alfa and F90 and count many blessings that they can live in my garage. I can’t imagine not driving either much though lol 😂. I find reasons to get out when one hasn’t been driven often enough. With the F90 still being quite new The Alfa has had a bit of a break but it’s back in regular use again now. I have no doubt when you have chosen you will drive it more than you thought you would!

LOL...and absolutely nothing wrong with an M5! I think I have more dream cars than I'd like to acknowledge lol...M5 yes please. I can believe on the engaged driving of the E39...but right now I only have space for one car hehehe. I know what you mean...and like I say - perhaps after owning one I will (not lose appreciation for an M car) but just realize its not supposed to be locked away - but that is not quite my plan either - just not for it to be a daily Your new F90 is beautiful...especially with the new rims...next level imo! On your very last sentiment...if that is the case then I know I chose right.

My F30 320d might only be that...but I still look back at it every time I walk away from it...and so I know I chose right and I very much am grateful for it and appreciate it - so I share your sentiment there!

 

[rsgordini]

I used to have a m140i and it was the best daily ever. Comfort. Performance. Looks. It has it all. Then I got the m240i as I always preferred the coupe look. To my surprise the m240i felt better built and definitely has better handling in all conditions. On power turning. Breaking hard. The 240i just feels more planted.

The best about these cars is the engine and gearbox combo. You just can’t Go wrong with the zf box and the b58. Special? I would say no. Special compared to most cars on road yes but not m car special.

M3 e90 with the V8 or the f80 m3 is special. When you drive one you’ll understand.

M5 is boss car but the f90 is the one to go for as all the issues from the f10 are corrected. But at your price i don’t think you’ll find one.

Good luck either way. It’s exciting what you doing and you’ll love any of them.

 

[Eust]

Yeah, I was going to say LCI E90 M3 as well.....ticks every box and if you do the preventative maintenance, you all sorted on that car and its something special.

M140i/M240i etc are all great DAILY cars.....Definitely not special and pretty boring relatively speaking, not S3 boring but still.

I would rather go C63 than B58 for a weekend warrior.....

 

[///M Individual]

Bud I would go with the F80 M3 hands down from your options 💪

Is a bakkie no longer needed for your work route?

 

[KR_19]

My choices would be the F80 M3 or the F10 M5, in that order. I've driven M's, M-lites and 3/440i and imo the M cars definitely have a more special feel that even an M-lite won't match. Since it is going to be your weekend warrior, it would be a no-brainer to get an M.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Rotinaj]

I realise I have become an M5 guy 😂😂 we all look for different things in a car and I think the M5 and M3 both fill different needs. The M5 is far more Jekyll and Hyde than the M3 is.

Also on the other comment about the E39, even having had the F10 and F90 (and Neven will probably agree also since he has F10 and E60), the E39 is somehow still “peak BMW” for me lol. You would be amazed at how engaging it is to drive. Everything has definitely gotten faster but few things deliver on that “sports sedan” brief in the way an E39 M5 does.

Don’t get me wrong! Any of the M cars is definitely special… just not to the degree they need to be pickled or put on a pedestal. I can still look at the Alfa and F90 and count many blessings that they can live in my garage. I can’t imagine not driving either much though lol 😂. I find reasons to get out when one hasn’t been driven often enough. With the F90 still being quite new The Alfa has had a bit of a break but it’s back in regular use again now. I have no doubt when you have chosen you will drive it more than you thought you would!

Kinda odd, bar the SMG issues i think the E60 is the pinnacle of M5. The way that big hulk of a car shrinks around you and with a chassis so playful and communicative. The E39 always felt numb in the steering department.

 

[TurboLlew]

Kinda odd, bar the SMG issues i think the E60 is the pinnacle of M5. The way that big hulk of a car shrinks around you and with a chassis so playful and communicative. The E39 always felt numb in the steering department.

The E60 noise is great... the design has somehow aged well over the years or we have just gotten used to it I guess (though it still looks like the 'evolution' between E39 and F10 was more natural), and it has its fans, but it is definitely not peak M5 for me. Hasn't stopped me from thinking of buying one regularly LOL. Finding a good E39 is an issue of course and it has been for years now (even before the current market craziness).

In terms of the newer cars, they are very different but what you are describing is true of them all (big hulk of a car which they all are, shrinking around you, which they all do and with a chassis so playful and communicative: THIS is where you have to think of maybe 'fixing' the newer cars with competition pack and aftermarket things (albeit small things like sways and springs) on the F10. They did fix ALOT with the F90 and you discover more of it the more you live with it (it actually feels like a much smaller car to drive than the F10 did) but I do wish it still had that DCT box (as I've said before).

 

[922-ZN]

LOL...and absolutely nothing wrong with an M5! I think I have more dream cars than I'd like to acknowledge lol...M5 yes please. I can believe on the engaged driving of the E39...but right now I only have space for one car hehehe. I know what you mean...and like I say - perhaps after owning one I will (not lose appreciation for an M car) but just realize its not supposed to be locked away - but that is not quite my plan either - just not for it to be a daily Your new F90 is beautiful...especially with the new rims...next level imo! On your very last sentiment...if that is the case then I know I chose right.

My F30 320d might only be that...but I still look back at it every time I walk away from it...and so I know I chose right and I very much am grateful for it and appreciate it - so I share your sentiment there!

I think you can ask for peoples opinions all day and get them all across the spectrum... Here's mine...
B58 is an extremely capable car and an epic daily, but judging by your requirements, you are looking for something that was the pinnacle of it's time and unfortunately the B58 is not that. M3 trumps M5(be it E46 vs E39, E90 vs E60, F80 vs F10, G80 vs F90) all day, every day and twice on Sundays, purely for the feel, handling characteristics, dynamics and "on it's toes" experience. M5 feels like a tourer and quite lazy when compared to the equivalent M3.

Bottom line... You know what you want, it's merely a matter of choice here. You can get all the advice you want, but if you make a decision based on these opinions and it's not REALLY what you want, you're going to have a void every single time you get into that car. Go drive all your options, you may have a notion of what all these cars are to you now but when you get into "the right one" all the noise just fades into the background. Your choice may not be the fastest or the most practical or the most special or or or or but, it only needs to be special to you, whether it's a MK1 golf or Bugatti or anything in-between, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Good Luck with your search

 

[gavsadler]

Here's my 2c:

I think it's obvious that based on your shortlist, you are looking for a fun car that is performance oriented.

Starting off with budget, I guess I'm stating the obvious in that the older model cars (>10years more or less) would need to be a cash purchase. The newer ones you may still be able to finance to some degree. I'm not sure if that is a determining factor, but let's ignore it for now.

Back to my opening sentence, a 'fun car' can be quite a broad term. In my mind, it's the way it makes you feel when you drive it. Are you looking for an engaging drive, that ticks the boxes across multiple areas, or only one area such as outright performance? This can probably be further broken down depending on whether it's a turbocharged motor, or N/A. I'll waffle on this point a bit. Turbo motors come with chunks of torque low down and overall are much much faster than anything N/A. But the beauty of N/A motors is their instant response, and you can rev them out and get great satisfaction doing so. Sure you won't be going as fast (or stupidly fast?), but who said fun only happens at stupid speeds. If anything, you can enjoy the car more because you stay at sane speeds for longer.

With you having a F30 320d already, some would argue that it is the perfect daily. Plenty fast, torque to get a move on quickly, and overall it's a refined car with various luxuries and comfort. My question would be: do you find that lacking in some way? Do you find yourself thinking "hmmm, I cant wait to drive my more luxurious, more refined car to the shopping mall on a Sunday". Or, do you sit and think "hmmm, this (320d) is a nice place to be, but I can't wait to take the engaging drivers car out on a Sunday morning to Magaliesburg and enjoy the quiet roads where I can stretch their legs a bit".

I'm convinced your thinking is the latter. So out of your shortlisted cars, I don't think there is a bad choice in that mix. M140i is awesome, Although it will be small in the back if you intend to transport family around on your weekend blasts. You're a tall guy too, so you will be sniffing your kneecaps at speed if you do that. The M235i is ok, big and spacious inside, lots of new tech and quite quick but IMO not as engaging as the M140i (for me an engine soundtrack trumps a lot of things, lol). Out of these 2 hatches, it would be the M140i.

Moving onto the sedans, there is just that extra space, which will make family outings more pleasant and comfortable. E90 M3 is a good car, and you only really appreciate and learn to unpack why it is special when you take it out of the daily grind. When you press on a bit in corners, at speed on the highway, it feels planted and reassuring. The V8 has 3 personalities, from idle to say 4000rpm, then its demeanor changes from 4000-6000rpm, and then it really wakes up and goes from 6000-8000rpm. A regular auto box will be smoother in the daily grind, but the DCT in full-attack mode is something to experience. (More detailed review and feedback in my thread elsewhere).

The F80 is slightly bigger, and has a strong twin-turbo 6cyl. I have yet to drive one myself, but I believe it to be on another level performance wise. Does it sound good? Well that's been debated to death and will come down to personal preference. But you will have all the luxuries, some newer tech and space for the family.

As for the M5, well I think that raises the bar yet again. Stupendously powerful V8 twin turbo, all the creature comforts and space for days. It's a supercar in a business suit.

As I've eluded to above, the newer cars are getting bigger, heavier, more luxurious and more refined, and while there are benefits to this, it also dulls the fun-factor to some degree. The new turbo motors are a great baseline for modding if that's the plan, but it can also lead to the car being undriveable.

Best bet: go and drive the cars and see what ticks your boxes, you may be pleasantly surprised. Or you're welcome to come visit and I can offer a comparison of the E-series cars - hatchback vs sedan.

My 2c comments became a R5 speech, lol.

 

[Nick]

Nick that is a good point to consider, however if I am being honest I cannot find an E90 4 door M3 on either carfind nor autotrader. Was actually talking to Gav about that today.

ye im sure with the recent Hype on Youtube, the owners are probably holding onto them, or selling them VERY quickly.

 

[TBP88]

If it's a weekend car then skip the sedans and get a coupe with a backseat, it'll be prettier (because a 2 door car fundamentally is more attractive than a 4 door) and it'll feel more special with the long stretch between A and B pillars. Not sure of your budget but you've got a lot of serious machinery in there for me I'd be checking the previous gen M4s. They're gorgeous, extremely fast (properly stupid fast) and relatively attainable. If you get a decent deal 2nd hand I doubt you'll lose the sink on it if you hold it for the long term either.

From left field though you could also likely hunt down something non-BMW for the sort of money you're talking as well. A decent 997.2 GTS/ 991.1 C2S should be within your budget (potentially stretch to a 991.2 C2S as well?) all of which will be pretty special and more "weekend-ey" than any M car can be. If you just want insane power and moddability then perhaps a R35 GTR? Can be yours well within budget and obviously has potential for insane power + 4wd means very little can keep pace if you're a robot to robot guy. All worthy alternatives that I think should be a bit more weekend-ey feeling. I don't think an M140/M240 make sense given you have a daily, nor an M5 - these are the sorts of cars made to do insane mileage and cover a wide range of driving experiences. You have a 320d to get to the shops/drop off the kids etc. You should have a car with a totally different identity to complement that.