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Looking for a battery drain module on E66
27-10-2011, 12:20 PM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2011 06:46 PM by Mamba.)
Post: #1
Looking for a battery drain module on E66
So I bought the car and knew something was draining the battery but to find the culprit was not that easy.

Yesterday I received my clamp meter which I can connect to either my multimeter or oscilloscope. I have not yet used it on the oscilloscope because initially I could see what I want to see on the multimeter.

[Image: MSgBC.png]


In the WDS there is a nice description how the car should start to shut down units in the first ten minutes and then after and hour go to total sleep with a battery current of not more than ±80mAmps.

This morning I connected the clamp meter on the negative cable, the positive cable is split in two and to thick for my clamp meter, I had to trim back about 15mm of the negative cable's insulation to be able to get the clamp meter fitted around the cable.

[Image: 2Jfa4.jpg]

Took the reading and saw the current was ±900mAmp. Start to pull the fuses one for one and monitor the reading, when I got to the telephone fuse the current dropped to 120mAmp. Start to replace the fuses already removed and the current stayed at 120mAmp.

Waited more than ten minutes and saw this:

[Image: 2C2Qs.jpg]

Bingo, progress. With the telephone fuse removed the car seems to go to the correct sleep mode but now I see other symptoms, like the Nav does not start up when I switch the car on.

Basically I have isolated the battery drain but not solved it in the least... Bluebiggrin I have to do some more reading and try and get the bus ring connected bypassing the telephone module to see if all the other units works all right.




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2002 E39M5, sold
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27-10-2011, 07:19 PM
Post: #2
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Today I spend tracing and trying to bypass the faulty telephone unit. I do not really want to use the telephone unit in the car but I will keep an eye out for one on EBay if the price is right.

Removed the telephone unit and decided that I am going to try and make a fibre jumper in order to get all the other units working again. I opened the unit and saw the two fibre jumpers, it is quiet easy to remove the female plug from the plug soldered on the PC board, the connection to the TX and RX was a bit more difficult to get out, I think it is a twist and turn but I just pulled it out with a plier, this is what I end up with:

[Image: Y0tcw.jpg]

Next I had to find a way to join the two open ends of the fibre, I searched in the garage for available joiners and eventually I found an old spark plug cap and this worked 100% as the fibres screwed in nice and tight and the connection was nice and straight, this is what it looked like:

[Image: nI6LY.jpg]

Installed this jumper in the telephone cable to complete the MOST bus system and started testing but nothing worked, I was sure it worked before...Sad

I spend a lot of time with DIS to trace and run all kinds of diagnostics tests on the MOST bus fibres to pinpoint if my jumper fibre work or not. DIS could not pinpoint the fault location and I was about to assemble the jumper back in the telephone unit to get my radio, nav, OBD data, PDC sound etc back.

[Image: yjIkt.jpg]

I then decided to do a "boere" test on my fibre jumper to make sure the light goes through, I know this is not exactly a dB lost test but if the light would pass through the fibre the chance that the jumper is working is good. I had a nice bright LED on the front panel of my battery charger and I placed one side of the jumper over the LED and the other side I showed on a flat surface, and the light was shining bright through the fibre jumper so I was sure my jumper was good but why did the MOST bus not work any more even with the jumper installed?

I then decided to go through all the fuses again and make sure I did not blow a fuse by disconnecting or working around the cables, all the fuses were ok, I then decided to put the telephone fuse back, and loo and behold everything sprung to life..! So basically the "telephone" fuse does not supply only the telephone...Sad

Well lesson learned, a lot of hours wasted but in the end success. I will test all the remaining modules when I drive again but so far so good, telephone unit removed, battery goes to sleep with only 80mAmp drawn so I am happy...Bluebiggrin





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2002 E39M5, sold
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27-10-2011, 07:26 PM
Post: #3
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Awesome work so far Thumbs

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27-10-2011, 07:53 PM
Post: #4
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Interesting post, looks like you know what your'e doing! Will keep that in mind for the furure...

My e65 drained the battery for no aparent reason, one day I needed 2xAA batteries, and I remembered the car phone uses AA's, so I took them out...(needless to say, they were totally flat, and I didn't put them back...) since then I've never got a battery discharged messsage again. Don't know if its just chance or whether the phone had anything to do with the discharging battery???

I'll be following this thread with great interest...

My FUEL to NOISE converters:

2002 BMW e65 745i (BMW N62 4.4i V8)
1997 Land Rover Defender 90 (BMW M52 2.8i)
1982 Land Rover Series 3s 109 (Ford 3.0 V6)
2007 VW Golf GTI (2.0T)

Global warming is a myth...burn that Petrol!!!

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27-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Post: #5
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Fantastic stuff bud.

Some indept analysis going on here, i like it alot Rollsmile

A friend of mine at BMW was telling me the other day that he also had a "awake" E65 that he could not figure out, with the problem turning out to be the door handle.

The car of course senses when you put your hand on the door handle and try and open it, which in turn does stuff. However on this particular car, the handle was stuffed, forcing the car to think that it needs to stay awake.

Also, you can buy from BMW a Fibre optic bypass plug. just as a matter of interest.

I can get a hold of MOST diagnostics equipment if you need....

Ok, now back to your issue,

I think your assumption of bus interrepution when removing the tel fuse is correct, however the bus should resume normal function if you remove the tel unit.

That said, have you seen if there are actually modules that behave differantly with or without a break in the MOST.

I will be on the other side if anybody needs me Bluebiggrin
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27-10-2011, 08:34 PM
Post: #6
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
(27-10-2011 07:53 PM)GEUT Wrote:  Interesting post, looks like you know what your'e doing! Will keep that in mind for the furure...

My e65 drained the battery for no aparent reason, one day I needed 2xAA batteries, and I remembered the car phone uses AA's, so I took them out...(needless to say, they were totally flat, and I didn't put them back...) since then I've never got a battery discharged messsage again. Don't know if its just chance or whether the phone had anything to do with the discharging battery???

I'll be following this thread with great interest...

Funny thing is my car does not have one of the two factory installed phones in the car, I bought the car without them, so my next conclusion was that it is the telephone module itself, but yes I have heard that the phones can do this.


(27-10-2011 08:11 PM)zaleonardz@DentDoctor Wrote:  Fantastic stuff bud.

Some indept analysis going on here, i like it alot Rollsmile

A friend of mine at BMW was telling me the other day that he also had a "awake" E65 that he could not figure out, with the problem turning out to be the door handle.

The car of course senses when you put your hand on the door handle and try and open it, which in turn does stuff. However on this particular car, the handle was stuffed, forcing the car to think that it needs to stay awake.

Also, you can buy from BMW a Fibre optic bypass plug. just as a matter of interest.

I can get a hold of MOST diagnostics equipment if you need....

Ok, now back to your issue,

I think your assumption of bus interrepution when removing the tel fuse is correct, however the bus should resume normal function if you remove the tel unit.

That said, have you seen if there are actually modules that behave differantly with or without a break in the MOST.

According to DIS and WDS only the Ikombi and SGFD units shall still work without the MOST bus ring complete because they are hard wired through a K Bus as well, if you break the MOST bus in any other place the rest of the units will not work anymore.

If I knew I could buy a fibre jumper I would have.. Bluebiggrin I only found that out after my modified jumper was installed, but thanx, and hopefully I would not need any MOST diagnostic equipment in the near future but thanx again, will keep it in mind.

My next "problem" to sort out is the WUP error I get...

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27-10-2011, 08:44 PM
Post: #7
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Interesting,

But then logic would dictate that your jumper is not working, even if you "can see the light"...

I will be on the other side if anybody needs me Bluebiggrin
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27-10-2011, 08:58 PM
Post: #8
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
(27-10-2011 08:44 PM)zaleonardz@DentDoctor Wrote:  Interesting,

But then logic would dictate that your jumper is not working, even if you "can see the light"...

I have lost you... Rollsmile

My jumper IS working at the moment, all the units came back to life after I refitted the telephone fuse, so the MOST bus is completed now with my modified fibre jumper... Bluebiggrin

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27-10-2011, 09:05 PM
Post: #9
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Ok,

Sorry, I am being a peanut, misunderstood you as well then...

I will be on the other side if anybody needs me Bluebiggrin
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30-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Post: #10
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Note to myself "Ok, Mamba, admit when you made a mistake"...!

My diagnoses of the battery drain was wrong... Sad When I started testing all the MOST bus units afterwards I realize my voice activation does not work any more because the voice activation use the microphone through the telephone unit. I decided to plug the telephone unit back in and see if I could get the voice activation back. At this time I had the oscilloscope on the clamp meter to see a graph of the battery amperage usage. I saw that the ampere reading went the right way after I locked the car and then I realized I made a mistake.

One of the things when one look for the battery drain culprit is to remove the fuses one by one until you see the amperage drop to the acceptable level. But here is the trick which I did not pay enough attention to, when one remove a fuse you have to wait at least one minute to see the result, in my haste I rushed through the procedure and by the time I removed the telephone fuse and I saw the amperage drop I though this was the faulty unit, where in fact it was one of the previous fuses I removed. I replaced the fibre jumper back in the telephone unit and then tested again.

Next I realized my comfort access was not working, found I left the fuse out and replaced the fuse, immediately I saw the battery drain symptoms. This time I took my time and made sure I was on the right track, it is so much more informative to monitor the amperage usage and reaction of the Power Module on the oscilloscope.

Now that I was certain it was the comfort access which caused the battery drain I started to test all the entry modules to the car, four doors plus the boot. Boot worked ok, driver door worked ok, passenger door worked ok, rear passenger door worked ok, driver passenger door did not work. I went back to the WDS drawings and found the fuse for the rear driver passenger door and removed the fuse for the comfort access module. Monitored the amperage usage again and saw that the behaviour of the amperage usage was still good.

One of the things with this car is the unknown of operation, for instance I have asked on various boards how the DVD player in the rear behave, how the seat adjustment light work, in terms on how long they should stay activated after the car has been switched of and the doors locked. I did not get any positive feedback so now it is important for me to create a baseline for future reference when I experience problems again. The good thing with the digital oscilloscope is that one can store the history graph, so yesterday I hooked up everything again and ran a test and recorded the graph, just as I was about to save the graph we experience a power failure and hence I will have to redo the test... Bluebiggrin but now I know what the graph should look like and also how the DVD and seat lights should react when everything is working ok, like I say for future reference only.

I have to source a new door handle but it is not a priority as I never use the rear door to access the car and all the other doors and boot still work 100% with the comfort access, very nice feature btw.

Today I realize why this cars can be so intimidating to work on, especially if one can not do the work yourself and have to take it to a dealer to sort it out, it take literately hours or even days to diagnose and test everything because as soon as you " wake " the car you have to wait another hour for the complete sleep cycle to kick in and see the result on the test equipment. I am very fortunate that I am technical and also have lots of patience as well as a good dose of love for the gadgets offered in the car that I will take my time to sort everything out one by one.





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30-10-2011, 11:16 AM
Post: #11
RE: Looking for a battery drain module on E66
Well,

The sleep cycle has got to be input driven, if it takes an hour, surely that may be adjustable, or perhaps if its not, maybe there is a way with DIS to force it into sleep mode.

Interesting.....

I will be on the other side if anybody needs me Bluebiggrin
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